Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,562
# 11
09-22-2012, 05:13 PM
Just as long as it doesn't feel like you have to get out and PUSH in a turn, (like, say, every Cruiser EVER)...
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,008
# 12
09-22-2012, 08:23 PM
Honestly, I don't understand why Cryptic has yet added the K'Vort, when it's one of the few remaining canonical Klingon ships yet making it to STO. The other is the VoDeigh-Battlecruiser (Negh'Var Varient from All Good Things).


Like said previously, the K'Vort was a Battlecruiser, not a Raider. So I could see it easily being a Battlecruiser with the turning rate somewhere between 10 and 13. (We seen on screen it wasn't a fast turner, but not as manuverable as the Raptor).

Tactical: Given that we never saw the K'Vort in DS9 or later, likely means that it wasn't as favored as the Vor'cha or the Negh'var. So it likely would have a LT Tactical Station in STO.

Engineering: Given its big and slow, gotta have it's survivability. So gotta have at least a LTC Engineering Station.

Science: Klingons never been fond of science so LT Science.

So I could see a configuration like:

LT or LTC Tactical
Commander Engineering
LT Science
LTC Universal
LT or Ensign Universal

Abilities:

Battlecloak (only Battlecruiser with one).

Surround (2 K'Vort Shadows that surrounds the target ship and lowers the targets manuverability - like we saw in Yesterday's Enterprise.

That or "Klingon Guile" which Worf used in the Ship Battle Simulation with the Enterprise-D on the Hathaway. Which basically bluffs the target with a fake sensor shadow to attack. (Which would be somewhat similar to the Rhode Island Console, but the user has other types of negative effects).
NO to ARC!

Season 9.5 = STO's NGE is Here! Welcome to the Grind!

New Crafting = It's not Crafting, is an overblown Reputation System.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 56
# 13
09-22-2012, 08:40 PM
Although several variants are seen throughout the franchise, design notes state that the Bird of Prey has two main classes: the B'rel-class and the K'Vort-class. Both classes used the same studio model, differing in sizes in proportion to other starships depending on variant. The B'rel-class is a scout vessel, used for espionage, skirmishes and raids, while the K'Vort-class is a light cruiser. Both classes are armed with disruptor cannons mounted on the tips of the wings and a forward torpedo launcher. Likewise, both classes are equipped with cloaking devices and are capable of impulse and warp speeds. With a crew of only 12 and a length of 160 meters, the B'rel-class is far smaller than the K'Vort-class, which measures 320 meters and possesses a crew of 300+. The interior of the Bird of Prey is similar to that of Douglas Trumbull's submarine-like designs for the K't'inga-class; some Birds of Prey are even shown with periscopes to allow the captain to personally target weapons. Despite relatively light armaments, Birds of Prey are shown to be effective craft; both the USS Enterprise and USS Enterprise-D are destroyed in part due to the activity of a Bird of Prey.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,032
# 14
09-22-2012, 11:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by azurianstar View Post
Honestly, I don't understand why Cryptic has yet added the K'Vort, when it's one of the few remaining canonical Klingon ships yet making it to STO. The other is the VoDeigh-Battlecruiser (Negh'Var Varient from All Good Things).
You got that reversed.
We have the version from AGT (the one without the pods).
We're missing the actual Negh'var version with the pods.

Quote:
Originally Posted by azurianstar View Post
Like said previously, the K'Vort was a Battlecruiser, not a Raider. So I could see it easily being a Battlecruiser with the turning rate somewhere between 10 and 13. (We seen on screen it wasn't a fast turner, but not as manuverable as the Raptor).

Tactical: Given that we never saw the K'Vort in DS9 or later, likely means that it wasn't as favored as the Vor'cha or the Negh'var. So it likely would have a LT Tactical Station in STO.

Engineering: Given its big and slow, gotta have it's survivability. So gotta have at least a LTC Engineering Station.

Science: Klingons never been fond of science so LT Science.

So I could see a configuration like:

LT or LTC Tactical
Commander Engineering
LT Science
LTC Universal
LT or Ensign Universal

Abilities:

Battlecloak (only Battlecruiser with one).

Surround (2 K'Vort Shadows that surrounds the target ship and lowers the targets manuverability - like we saw in Yesterday's Enterprise.

That or "Klingon Guile" which Worf used in the Ship Battle Simulation with the Enterprise-D on the Hathaway. Which basically bluffs the target with a fake sensor shadow to attack. (Which would be somewhat similar to the Rhode Island Console, but the user has other types of negative effects).
I like your setup.

I'd like to add another special function idea: a unique torpedo that's actually useful at reducing shields.
This scene is from "Redemption" pt.1 where two K'vorts attack Gowron's flagship:

http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/805...1414h50m03.png
http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/6...1414h50m16.png
http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/159...1414h50m28.png
http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/1...1414h50m32.png
http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/2...1414h50m34.png

from this point on, the port shields were down and stayed down.
This thing does not look like a Photon Torpedo, nor does it cause a shield effect like any I've ever seen.
And it does not appear to be the shields themselves.
Those show a rather conventional effect when hit by disruptor blasts:

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/7...1414h49m42.png

So it must be caused by the torpeod weapon.

Anyway here's my proposal from another thread:

"Photon Energy Torpedo"

Values similar to a Quantum Torp, but with 20% reduced damage.
Instead damage is split in half.
50% is kinteic damage
50% is energy damage.
This way the weapon would actually do some damage against shields.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,150
# 15
09-23-2012, 02:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lianthelia View Post
Why can't it technically be both? Its a BoP in shape...but the size of a cruiser?
Because the visuals make it identical to the B'rel. The K'vort vfx in 'Yesterday's Enterprise' were reused in 'Rascals' where the Birds-of-prey were identified as B'rel-class. Which is problematic, as either the K'vort BoP is bigger than any other BoP class we've seen (and thus, the commonly accepted Mike Okuda interpretation that the B'rel is a scout ship in comparison hits a brick wall) or the B'rel class is bigger than everyone else thinks. It's basically an error in vfx IMO.

The other thing is I really don't like the idea of simply upscaling the Bird-of-prey when they already introduced the K'tinga, the Vorcha, and the Negh'var (which for some reason they never showed again after season four DS9). To me, a Bird-of-prey should always be a smallish ship, like it currently is, but I acknowledge I might be in the minority in that opinion. If it must come in the game, and I doubt canon is really all that important a consideration for a game, I think it should be a raptor escort, as that not only still fits the nomenclature (bird-of-prey = raptors, herpderp) but it's easier to accept an upscaled B'rel as an escort than as a cruiser IMO.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,032
# 16
09-23-2012, 06:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stofsk View Post
Because the visuals make it identical to the B'rel. The K'vort vfx in 'Yesterday's Enterprise' were reused in 'Rascals' where the Birds-of-prey were identified as B'rel-class. Which is problematic, as either the K'vort BoP is bigger than any other BoP class we've seen (and thus, the commonly accepted Mike Okuda interpretation that the B'rel is a scout ship in comparison hits a brick wall) or the B'rel class is bigger than everyone else thinks. It's basically an error in vfx IMO.
Interestingly enough "Rascals" is actually the only time ever in canon Trek that the name B'rel was used.
And the Ferengi implied those were actually not modern ships.

"For an investment of two surplus Klingon ships, a few repairs and some weapons, we've netted a Federation starship and her crew, not to mention a planet rich in vendarite."

So it's quite possible the B'rel class is similar to the K'vort but a preceding model.
This makes calling the small ships B'rel even more arbitrary but it's appearently what we ahve to live with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stofsk View Post
The other thing is I really don't like the idea of simply upscaling the Bird-of-prey when they already introduced the K'tinga, the Vorcha, and the Negh'var (which for some reason they never showed again after season four DS9). To me, a Bird-of-prey should always be a smallish ship, like it currently is, but I acknowledge I might be in the minority in that opinion. If it must come in the game, and I doubt canon is really all that important a consideration for a game, I think it should be a raptor escort, as that not only still fits the nomenclature (bird-of-prey = raptors, herpderp) but it's easier to accept an upscaled B'rel as an escort than as a cruiser IMO.
Well, you forgot that the Negh'var reappeared on Voyager.

I understand your position and I respect it.

However I believe there would be a simple solution how to make the small and large BoPs visually distinct enough.
Aside from the obvious scale, the larger ships could have proper details that show it's a different class of ship:
-rows of small windows
-escape pods, perhaps
-a different coulour scheme (in "Redemption", on the BortaS' viewscreen, the enemy ship looked somwhat different, more greenish with grey details).

As an escort it would be somewhat misplaced IMO.
The large BoPs moved rather sluggishly which combined with their wings in horizontal prosition gave them a rather menacing feel, like a giant deadly eagle.
With their wings in horizontal positon they'd probably look goofy moving like an escort.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,150
# 17
09-23-2012, 09:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by misterde3 View Post
Well, you forgot that the Negh'var reappeared on Voyager.
In my defence, I haven't actually seen 'Endgame' so it didn't occur to me that it appeared then.

I still think a raptor might be a better fit. Maybe make it a more tanky escort than it's peers, like a higher base hull but a lower turn rate than other raptors. Good ideas though on adding more windows and escape pods and stuff.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,032
# 18
09-23-2012, 12:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stofsk View Post
In my defence, I haven't actually seen 'Endgame' so it didn't occur to me that it appeared then.
TBH, aside from the short bit with the Negh'Vars you didn't miss much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stofsk View Post
I still think a raptor might be a better fit. Maybe make it a more tanky escort than it's peers, like a higher base hull but a lower turn rate than other raptors. Good ideas though on adding more windows and escape pods and stuff.
As a really heavy Raptor...yeah you're right that might work.
The 4/3 weapon setup would look good on that ship.
IMO the large BoPs always seemed to be like a "killer of big starships".
They're basically the spaceborne version of WW2 era tank hunters like the Jagdpanther and SU-100:
a medium-sized hull but with heavy-size concentrated forward firepower at the expense of allround capabilities.
So 4/3 would be rather nice...and to kill bigger fish is what Raptors do aynway.

This is also why I think we didn't see them during the Dominion War aside from lone missions like the Koraga's:
they were desigend to shoot stuff that's bigger than themselves (Galaxies, Warbirds etc.) which makes them useless against swarms of small Dominion ships.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,562
# 19
09-23-2012, 12:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stofsk View Post
In my defence, I haven't actually seen 'Endgame' so it didn't occur to me that it appeared then.

I still think a raptor might be a better fit. Maybe make it a more tanky escort than it's peers, like a higher base hull but a lower turn rate than other raptors. Good ideas though on adding more windows and escape pods and stuff.

So, a heavily armed light cruiser then? (Seriously, the Raptor pivot actually makes them more akin to a Fed Light Cruiser with Escort weapons, than a real Escort. and we HAVE a cruiser that moves like an Escort now-the Tor'Kaht from the C-store).

Now, length on the K'vort fits the same nose-to-tail and wingtip-to-wingtip footprint as the Hegh'Ta, it's just a 'beefier" body structure (Thicker neck, thicker main hull, bigger, more rounded nose).

Strikes me that a lot of game dev money can be saved by just offering it as a reskin for the atrocious Hoh'sus art,or as the basis for a "Fleet" version of the Hegh'Ta's stats with a C-store variant.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 249
# 20
09-23-2012, 01:34 PM
I don't really see the point in one of those oversized mirror universe bops. What I have seen in the shows they seem to be same size as a Hegh'ta.
As cannon boats, the turnrate is important. How could the supersized mu versions ever hope to keep a target in front of them ?
I would like to see it as c-store ship first. With a 3+2 weapon layout, and unique super heavy disruptor guns, basically combining the stats of 2 dhc to make up for the loss of one gunslot.
Instead, it should get one more tac console over the Hegh'ta.
The fleet version then gets the usual extra HP and the 4th forward weapon slot, instead of another console.
Tada, Feds get 5 tac consoles escort, Klingons get basically a 5 forward weapon ship. (If you count the unique gun as two guns)
HP and turnrate somewhere between Qin and Hegh'ta.
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