Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7
Now, I know this isn't the first post on this. And I have tried to remain silent about it, but yesterday I was doing some boring stuff and it suddenly hit me about why we need to stay as far away from Lockboxes as possible.

They changed them to guarantee you get 4 Lobi Crystals...and in my experience of opening 25 or so, that is all I got per box.

Doing some simple math, we can easily see how this Cryptic laughing at us.

Let's take a look at items in the Lobi store. The DS9 Uniform top, ONLY the top, is 100 Crystals.

Let's assume you are as unlucky as I apparently am, and you only get 4 crystals per box. That means I have to open 25 boxes to get the crystals needed to buy it. 25 boxes would cost me 3375 Zen for keys, assuming I buy ten packs which is ultimately cheaper.

For that same 3375 Zen, I could buy the entire DS9 uniform pack from the C-Store and have points left over.

Now, assuming I got a great item out of the box as well....it might be worth it. But let's be honest here. How many people really get items they can use out of the boxes? I was generous at first, and spent my points to open the 25 boxes I did. And I ended up with mostly potions and a few pieces of gear that I could use.

Doing more math, I realized I could have gotten enough dilithium for that Zen I spent on keys, to buy much better gear than what I got.

I even got food from the lockbox. I didn't think that was possible...but it happened.

So, Cryptic. Please. Please for all that matters in the universe...can we just stop with the boxes? Unless you are going to give us a minimum of 25 crystals per box, it's just you asking us to be suckers.

And I would even be fine with not getting crystals if I got one of the rare or very rare rewards from the box. If i got the Ferengi ship, I wouldn't mind not getting Crystals...as an example.

For those who would call me bitter or whatever, I have the DS9 uniform. In fact, there is very little in the C-Store I don't own. Most I got long before F2P, and being about 1.5 months away from my 1000 day vet reward...I have been here a long time buying C-Store items. My monthly stipend has purchased all the uniforms, and I have supported the game I enjoy by buying more points to buy ships and such.

I just don't see how Cryptic or PerfectWorld can rationalize that these boxes are in any way "a much better deal".

9 out of 10 times you could get more for your Zen buy spending on anything else.

Just my opinion, and thanks for reading.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,202
# 2
09-19-2012, 07:05 PM
And ? It's vanity stuff. If you don't want it don't buy it. There's no harm to the game with costumes...

That's what cryptic wants : 'richer than you' effect. It's expensive so you'll want it. Your post proves me that the Veblen effect isn't just a theory. All this jealousy for costumes in a game!

Anyway the DS9 pack is available on the exchange for 200k credits or so so we'll forgive you as a beginner to the game.

Last edited by diogene0; 09-19-2012 at 07:08 PM.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 891
# 3
09-19-2012, 09:04 PM
They aren't going to stop with the boxes.

They make an insane amount of money off of them and some players actually like them.

But thanks for helping me check the box on my daily checklist that reads "Check out STO forum for exciting new post begging the devs to remove the single biggest moneymaker they have from the game." Hate it when a checkbox goes unfilled.

The silver lining for you (I like to provide those whenever I can...) is that YOU never have to open a lockbox. Ever. No one from Cryptic will ever come to your home and threaten you with bodily harm unless you buy a key. Rejoice.

Accept the box. It isn't going anywhere. In fact, I'm willing to bet a free lockbox key that if the box ever does fall out of STO, it'll be because they are shuttering STO and turning off the servers.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 353
# 4
09-20-2012, 04:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fmstalker View Post
Now, I know this isn't the first post on this. And I have tried to remain silent about it, but yesterday I was doing some boring stuff and it suddenly hit me about why we need to stay as far away from Lockboxes as possible.

They changed them to guarantee you get 4 Lobi Crystals...and in my experience of opening 25 or so, that is all I got per box.

Doing some simple math, we can easily see how this Cryptic laughing at us.

Let's take a look at items in the Lobi store. The DS9 Uniform top, ONLY the top, is 100 Crystals.

Let's assume you are as unlucky as I apparently am, and you only get 4 crystals per box. That means I have to open 25 boxes to get the crystals needed to buy it. 25 boxes would cost me 3375 Zen for keys, assuming I buy ten packs which is ultimately cheaper.

For that same 3375 Zen, I could buy the entire DS9 uniform pack from the C-Store and have points left over.

Now, assuming I got a great item out of the box as well....it might be worth it. But let's be honest here. How many people really get items they can use out of the boxes? I was generous at first, and spent my points to open the 25 boxes I did. And I ended up with mostly potions and a few pieces of gear that I could use.

Doing more math, I realized I could have gotten enough dilithium for that Zen I spent on keys, to buy much better gear than what I got.

I even got food from the lockbox. I didn't think that was possible...but it happened.

So, Cryptic. Please. Please for all that matters in the universe...can we just stop with the boxes? Unless you are going to give us a minimum of 25 crystals per box, it's just you asking us to be suckers.

And I would even be fine with not getting crystals if I got one of the rare or very rare rewards from the box. If i got the Ferengi ship, I wouldn't mind not getting Crystals...as an example.

For those who would call me bitter or whatever, I have the DS9 uniform. In fact, there is very little in the C-Store I don't own. Most I got long before F2P, and being about 1.5 months away from my 1000 day vet reward...I have been here a long time buying C-Store items. My monthly stipend has purchased all the uniforms, and I have supported the game I enjoy by buying more points to buy ships and such.

I just don't see how Cryptic or PerfectWorld can rationalize that these boxes are in any way "a much better deal".
9 out of 10 times you could get more for your Zen buy spending on anything else.

Just my opinion, and thanks for reading.
They've removed ALOT of crap from the boxes (Batteries, vanity pets, etc) in lieu of people complaining about opening them. Not sure why the rant about the lobi store itself, NONE of that stuff is being spoonfed to anyone, I'm personally OK with the Lobi store itself, and glad they're moving some of the vanity stuff over to it, while still offering a lot of good options of other items. The Tholian sword is actually not half bad, nor are any of the ships.

Also, almost everything (except the Ferengi set which Im glad as hell theyre bringing back, and the - I'll agree to this one being bad - upgrade to the Tholian ground set) can be purchased on the exchange fairly cheap. The DS9 Outfit pack, Sehlat Pets, and Dilithium Horta (which has been replaced) are the only c-store items I know of that are part of the lock box fiasco, so your original issue is unique to very few items, the rest cannot be found anywhere else but the boxes and/or lobi store.
Ensign
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 12
# 5
09-20-2012, 08:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by diogene0 View Post
And ? It's vanity stuff. If you don't want it don't buy it. There's no harm to the game with costumes...

That's what cryptic wants : 'richer than you' effect. It's expensive so you'll want it. Your post proves me that the Veblen effect isn't just a theory. All this jealousy for costumes in a game!

Anyway the DS9 pack is available on the exchange for 200k credits or so so we'll forgive you as a beginner to the game.
Yeah I kinda have to agree, there is luck involved, 2 times in my lockbox openings I got 26 & 38 Lobi respectively. Now I didn't go into it all starry eyed thinking "Ohh I'm gonna get the cool stuff" I actually was doing it for enough crystals, to get a Recluse and a crystal sword. That being said I got 3 of the 25,000 fleet credit bonus cards, 15 of the 5,000 Bonus Cards (which My Fleet was very happy to have added to our bank) and on top of this I got 3 of the subspace jump/point defense consoles, AND I won an Orb weaver. not to mention the ridiculous amount of both the Star & Assault Mirror Universe ships, though I strangely never did get the Klingon MU ship?? oh well. Some love them some hate them, I say the philosophy of "Don't Like it, Don't Buy it" works best here. If I had a complaint for cryptic, it would be from my being a Tholian player from way back when we played Star Fleet Battles on tabletop. I think you should have offered Thermionic Torpedo Launchers, and Web Generation Consoles in the Lobi Store for us players that love the Tholians (even if the caveat was to buy them you had to have a Recluse or Orb Weaver in your inventory or bank). I don't like the idea I either have to waste my Orb Weaver, or Buy another off the exchange just to have fore & aft Launchers of the same type, and A Tholian ship that can't generate the web?? Really, That's what the race is Known for. Anyways that's my little rant over.. I personally enjoyed this Round of lockboxes, and trust me 4+ Lobi Crystals per box sure as heck beats 1 per box any day of the week.
P.S. I sure hope they keep the items in the Lobi Store, I didn't get a chance to get a Crystal Sword for my second "main" Character and after having it on my original character it's my new favorite Melee weapon.

Last edited by obiwanstogie; 09-20-2012 at 08:31 AM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 220
# 6
09-20-2012, 08:37 AM
my issue isent lockboxes in themselfs its the price of master keys to open them , i can only feel exploited at 125 zen per key , and the keys arent in the loot table which is imho shocking lol
i mean everyone likes a gamble , but this isent just a case of having 100 spare zen to have a few lucky shots this is serious money taking on PWEs end and i am not beating about a bush with this. its exploiting our love of the game and star trek trek in a mean spirited manner (greed).
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,634
# 7
09-20-2012, 08:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by obiwanstogie View Post
I don't like the idea I either have to waste my Orb Weaver, or Buy another off the exchange just to have fore & aft Launchers of the same type
You can only fit one Thermionic Torp to either ship.

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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 315
# 8
09-20-2012, 08:54 AM
The problem is lock boxes don't cost you anything but your time. You can get keys for EC's, and boxes drop everywhere and are cheap on the exchange as well, no zen involved. They also improved the odds of getting something useful in them. I don't understand what the hang up is.

Are you upset that Cryptic is able to make money off them? Since you can get keys for in-game credits an no RL $$, why do you care about the mechanism Cryptic is using behind the scenes?
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Join Date: Sept 2008


"Holographic tissue paper for the holographic runny nose. Don't give them to patients." - The Doctor
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 220
# 9
09-20-2012, 09:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kobayashlmaru View Post
The problem is lock boxes don't cost you anything but your time. You can get keys for EC's, and boxes drop everywhere and are cheap on the exchange as well, no zen involved. They also improved the odds of getting something useful in them. I don't understand what the hang up is.

Are you upset that Cryptic is able to make money off them? Since you can get keys for in-game credits an no RL $$, why do you care about the mechanism Cryptic is using behind the scenes?
nope even a rich man knows hes being exploited when hes charged ?30 for a ?3 cup of coffee in a posh hotel , people arent thick nm there wealth in real life or ingame and know when something is just wrong ,
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7
# 10
09-20-2012, 03:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by diogene0 View Post
And ? It's vanity stuff. If you don't want it don't buy it. There's no harm to the game with costumes...

That's what cryptic wants : 'richer than you' effect. It's expensive so you'll want it. Your post proves me that the Veblen effect isn't just a theory. All this jealousy for costumes in a game!

Anyway the DS9 pack is available on the exchange for 200k credits or so so we'll forgive you as a beginner to the game.
Is it all vanity? No it's not. There are plenty of Non-vanity items in there. I only used the DS9 example because it is something you can get in the C-Store...so it made it easy to do a comparison.

It's asking for a fair value for the money I spend.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fiberteksyfir View Post
They've removed ALOT of crap from the boxes (Batteries, vanity pets, etc) in lieu of people complaining about opening them. Not sure why the rant about the lobi store itself, NONE of that stuff is being spoonfed to anyone, I'm personally OK with the Lobi store itself, and glad they're moving some of the vanity stuff over to it, while still offering a lot of good options of other items. The Tholian sword is actually not half bad, nor are any of the ships.

Also, almost everything (except the Ferengi set which Im glad as hell theyre bringing back, and the - I'll agree to this one being bad - upgrade to the Tholian ground set) can be purchased on the exchange fairly cheap. The DS9 Outfit pack, Sehlat Pets, and Dilithium Horta (which has been replaced) are the only c-store items I know of that are part of the lock box fiasco, so your original issue is unique to very few items, the rest cannot be found anywhere else but the boxes and/or lobi store.
I used the DS9 uniform top as an example, because you can get it by other means so it allows you to make a comparison.

Last I looked there was a ship in the lobi store for 800 crystals. How many boxes you gotta open to get that many? Then the question has to be asked, why is that ship worth so much more than the ships in the C-Store already. Because opening a hundred boxes or more to get the crystals for that ship makes it far more expensive than it would be to just buy it in the C-Store.

You seem to have the same idea as most people, where you aren't exactly considering how much more is being charged for the lobi store items when compared to just buying them outright...if you could in the C-Store.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kobayashlmaru View Post
The problem is lock boxes don't cost you anything but your time. You can get keys for EC's, and boxes drop everywhere and are cheap on the exchange as well, no zen involved. They also improved the odds of getting something useful in them. I don't understand what the hang up is.

Are you upset that Cryptic is able to make money off them? Since you can get keys for in-game credits an no RL $$, why do you care about the mechanism Cryptic is using behind the scenes?
No, I want them to make money. But I want a fair value for my money. Obviously you didn't read the post, or didn't understand the math.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bruccy View Post
nope even a rich man knows hes being exploited when hes charged ?30 for a ?3 cup of coffee in a posh hotel , people arent thick nm there wealth in real life or ingame and know when something is just wrong ,
Exactly. Thank you.


+++++++++++++++++

And the items in the boxes are better? Really? Out of ten boxes yesterday I got 6 Duty Officer packs, 1 Purple Duty Officer, a box containing a blue melee weapon and 2 5000 Star Base Credits.

Sitting on nearly 1 billion EC, a full duty roster, and having one Officer of each type for each faction maxed out...after three years it's not so hard...none of that stuff was any good for me.

In fact, non of my friends had any interest in it either. See, they have been playing for years like I have.

This stuff may all be fine for newer players, but for those of us who have grinded out our purple gear, geared out our ships and maximized out Duty Roster...the only thing we can really look forward to in those boxes are the "vanity" items.

I could sell all those other things, and I gave the starbase tokens away, but what does that mean? It means I should have just spent that Zen buying EC, that I don't even remotely need.

Sorry if you disagree. I am not asking them to take them away. I am asking them to make them worth the cost. Better yet, quit putting all this crap in the boxes, make some new mission content, and use these things as rewards for those will to do the new content. I'd gladly pay that 1000 zen on a new mission series instead. I know many others would too.


This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Perfect World Entertainment Community Rules and Policies . ~syberghost

Last edited by syberghost; 09-20-2012 at 05:27 PM. Reason: fixed quote tags
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