Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,334
# 231
10-01-2012, 06:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hereticknight085 View Post
Fleet Tor'Kaht Retrofit. The perfect cruiser. High hull, great console and BOff setup. Great base turn rate. Also not aesthetically displeasing. Once you step inside, you will never leave. Best part is that it only requires a Tier 2 shipyard.
Hmmmmmmmm..... ou mean that I actually have to grind my Klink now? Were still at Tier 0.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,334
# 232
10-01-2012, 06:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by meurik View Post
Bolded part. That's where you are wrong. Sure, the Enterprise is massive, but it's also rather nimble, for it's size. And it's been shown as such many times over.

Second, who says we need to conform to the "traditional" Tank/Healer/DPS combo? Why can't all ships have a relatively "equal" balance, with Cruisers having Higher hull, and Escorts having Higher dps? Why does it automatically have to be that the "massive ships are nothing more than lumbering bricks" ?
Becuase then people would start arguing that the higher mass of the ships means that they should carry more and heavier guns than the escorts, and escorts should do less dps. It's a cyclic thing. I guess we could all just play Asteroids or Galaga. Big ships turning noticeably worse than little ships maintains credibility to the senses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by meurik View Post
If I were to install a V8 engine into a Model-T Ford (assuming the two are remotely compatible), the Model-T wouldn't be a "lumbering brick" anymore.
No it wouldn't be a lumbering brick, just a brick that is fast for a short time until it had to stop, turn or twist/ snap drive-line components because the whole vehicle wasn't designed by modern vehicular standards of road-going. You would have to spend much more resources than its worth to bring it up to spec'. But people can still comment on the nice, shiny valve covers though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by meurik View Post
Why couldn't the same idea be applied to starships? If you have a high power output, and advanced engines, both of which should be capable of compensating for the large mass. After all, in Newtonian physics, an object in motion, tends to stay in motion. Mass has very little difference in space.
Umm.... whaaaaaaaaaaaaat? Mass has a great deal to do in space, per Newtonian Physics, mass is in every equation in that realm!. Especially when you are being pulled by more than one object (and because everything in the universe is pulling on each other, that mean all the time).

Even in space, heavier ships need more energy to alter its path than a lighter ship would, to the point of it being exponential.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 154
# 233
10-02-2012, 01:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by whamhammer1 View Post
Becuase then people would start arguing that the higher mass of the ships means that they should carry more and heavier guns than the escorts, and escorts should do less dps. It's a cyclic thing. I guess we could all just play Asteroids or Galaga. Big ships turning noticeably worse than little ships maintains credibility to the senses.



No it wouldn't be a lumbering brick, just a brick that is fast for a short time until it had to stop, turn or twist/ snap drive-line components because the whole vehicle wasn't designed by modern vehicular standards of road-going. You would have to spend much more resources than its worth to bring it up to spec'. But people can still comment on the nice, shiny valve covers though.



Umm.... whaaaaaaaaaaaaat? Mass has a great deal to do in space, per Newtonian Physics, mass is in every equation in that realm!. Especially when you are being pulled by more than one object (and because everything in the universe is pulling on each other, that mean all the time).

Even in space, heavier ships need more energy to alter its path than a lighter ship would, to the point of it being exponential.

The mass of a ship has no effect in game, its down to bridge layouts, hull hp and but mainly down to class of each ship. There are lots of examples of where ships in game are larger than others but have a higher turn rate just because of the class they are put in.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,553
# 234
10-02-2012, 01:41 AM
I don't know why we even bother with these threads anymore. According to hours of forum digging (I have no life on weekends), and observation of the 6 threads I have participated in actively, I see lots of questions asking for cruiser turn rate increases, cruiser firepower increases, cruiser smoothie machines, cruiser day care centers, etc. And guess what? It seems the only things that get buffed are escorts. Sci got nerf bat to the crown jewels, and escorts got tankier and more firepower.

On a positive note, cruisers never got debuffed. They just have not been enhanced to be able to keep up with the higher speed gameplay ever since the game went f2p. They are still the "space humpback whales" in a world of tiger sharks. You won't see em die, but you won't see em do much. They can move, but they take forever to get anywhere with the sharks swimming in circles around them.

In all honesty, we all know that the devs will never buff cruiser anything. So all you guys defending escorts, you can get off your soap boxes, you're dominion is safe. And just let us vent. Seriously.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Tired of Wasting EC and Time trying to get Superior Romulan Operative BOffs? Here's a cheap and easy way to get them, with an almost 100% chance of success.
Why the Devs can't make PvE content harder.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,202
# 235
10-02-2012, 01:49 AM
Fed cruisers also have insane defense abilities. If you want a better turnrate it has to be at the expanse of hull point and shield modifier. That's the problem of kdf cruisers, they have a rather low shield tanking ability, which makes them really weaker.

Anyway if you want to fly a fleet Vor'cha you can create a kdf character, STO isn't a game you should play with 1 or two characters only.

Current cruisers have excellent layouts, but it's difficult and technical to play them well. It may not be pleasing to hear but you musn't be good at it if you feel your cruiser is inferior to other ships.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 154
# 236
10-02-2012, 02:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by diogene0 View Post
Fed cruisers also have insane defense abilities. If you want a better turnrate it has to be at the expanse of hull point and shield modifier. That's the problem of kdf cruisers, they have a rather low shield tanking ability, which makes them really weaker.

Anyway if you want to fly a fleet Vor'cha you can create a kdf character, STO isn't a game you should play with 1 or two characters only.

Current cruisers have excellent layouts, but it's difficult and technical to play them well. It may not be pleasing to hear but you musn't be good at it if you feel your cruiser is inferior to other ships.
KDF fleet ships have the same shield modifer as fed cruisers, the only difference is 1 batter slot and hull hp. And yes, I would sacrifice from 0 hp to 4k hp on certain ships for better turn rate.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,202
# 237
10-02-2012, 02:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chi1701d View Post
KDF fleet ships have the same shield modifer as fed cruisers, the only difference is 1 batter slot and hull hp. And yes, I would sacrifice from 0 hp to 4k hp on certain ships for better turn rate.
Don't compare c-store fed cruisers with kdf fleet ships. C-store ships are well knowned to be inferior to fleet ones.

I don't get why you CAN'T play with 7 tunrate, I don't need even 5 to get quite often the highest DPS value with my sci. Turnrate has never been an issue if you know how to play the game.

Again, if you really want kdf ships why don't you create a kdf character instead of asking for the kdf stuff for your old chars? Because obviously you won't get it.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 154
# 238
10-02-2012, 03:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by diogene0 View Post
Don't compare c-store fed cruisers with kdf fleet ships. C-store ships are well knowned to be inferior to fleet ones.

I don't get why you CAN'T play with 7 tunrate, I don't need even 5 to get quite often the highest DPS value with my sci. Turnrate has never been an issue if you know how to play the game.

Again, if you really want kdf ships why don't you create a kdf character instead of asking for the kdf stuff for your old chars? Because obviously you won't get it.
I was comparing fed fleet to kdf fleet not c-store ships. And I do have a KDF character and no, im not asking for kdf stuff. I was simply correcting your lack of knowledge regarding ship stats. If you cant tank your kdf cruiser as well as a fed, then your doing something wrong.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,334
# 239
10-02-2012, 11:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chi1701d View Post
The mass of a ship has no effect in game, its down to bridge layouts, hull hp and but mainly down to class of each ship. There are lots of examples of where ships in game are larger than others but have a higher turn rate just because of the class they are put in.
Look at the inertia factors, mass is inversely proportionate to the ships rating. The bigger the ship, the lower the inertia rating. The inertia rating states how easily the ship overcomes acceleration and turning due to the ships mass.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,334
# 240
10-02-2012, 11:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hereticknight085 View Post
I don't know why we even bother with these threads anymore. According to hours of forum digging (I have no life on weekends), and observation of the 6 threads I have participated in actively, I see lots of questions asking for cruiser turn rate increases, cruiser firepower increases, cruiser smoothie machines, cruiser day care centers, etc. And guess what? It seems the only things that get buffed are escorts. Sci got nerf bat to the crown jewels, and escorts got tankier and more firepower.
Hey, I am all for the "cruiser smoothie machines". That IS a cause worth fighting for.
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