Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,766
# 241
10-02-2012, 01:25 PM
Escorts did not get more tankier.
The top end Escort players learned how to make them more tankier and that information has made its way down through the ranks so even a new Escort player with a modicum of ability to surf the forums will find the same tricks to increase an Escorts survival.
Cruisers where not mysteriuosly nerfed when no one was looking.
Only Science has been truelly nerfed into being subpar.

All of this happened becuase Cryptic can't balance a game they do not micromanage but keep throwing more fluff OP items into at an alarming rate.
The game has become a DPS monster in that burst DPS is the only solution to every conflict and that is why Cruisers seem to suck becuase they do not do burst DPS but sustained DPS.
Cryptic needs to balance thier game by making it viable to do indirect sustained damage that is meaningful without making the Cruiser a Burst DPS vessel that replaces the Escort.
Richard Hamilton (1975-2014)
goodbye good friend. We will see you in the DMZ in the sky oneday, save a shot for us.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 157
# 242
10-02-2012, 01:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by whamhammer1 View Post
Look at the inertia factors, mass is inversely proportionate to the ships rating. The bigger the ship, the lower the inertia rating. The inertia rating states how easily the ship overcomes acceleration and turning due to the ships mass.
So if im understanding this right, the smaller the ship in mass and size means higher inertia which means higher turn rate?
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,178
# 243
10-02-2012, 01:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemepwe View Post
Escorts did not get more tankier.
The top end Escort players learned how to make them more tankier and that information has made its way down through the ranks so even a new Escort player with a modicum of ability to surf the forums will find the same tricks to increase an Escorts survival.
Cruisers where not mysteriuosly nerfed when no one was looking.
Only Science has been truelly nerfed into being subpar.

All of this happened becuase Cryptic can't balance a game they do not micromanage but keep throwing more fluff OP items into at an alarming rate.
The game has become a DPS monster in that burst DPS is the only solution to every conflict and that is why Cruisers seem to suck becuase they do not do burst DPS but sustained DPS.
Cryptic needs to balance thier game by making it viable to do indirect sustained damage that is meaningful without making the Cruiser a Burst DPS vessel that replaces the Escort.
item sets and doffs have atleast doubled an escorts survivability, combined with speed tanking they can be very hard to kill. though a cruiser with good dps and those same doffs and sets can outlast and out attrition just about any escort

burst has been made even more important now to try to counter the huge burst healing potential there is.


annnnnnd none of this has anything to do with letting fed cruisers have a base turn rate that is 2 better then it is now. that would effect none of this.
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,484
# 244
10-02-2012, 05:14 PM
The best way to tunr a Fed CA is to lower your speed down to half impluse and use rcs console and good engine with good turn rate.

The KDF Sci Carrier is far harder to turn than any Fed criuser
Age StarTrek-Gamers Administrator
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer
Star Trek Gamers
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,766
# 245
10-02-2012, 05:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
item sets and doffs have atleast doubled an escorts survivability, combined with speed tanking they can be very hard to kill. though a cruiser with good dps and those same doffs and sets can outlast and out attrition just about any escort

burst has been made even more important now to try to counter the huge burst healing potential there is.


annnnnnd none of this has anything to do with letting fed cruisers have a base turn rate that is 2 better then it is now. that would effect none of this.
True, all the new stuff allows many vessels to strecth outside thier normal chatacteristics.

Burst still seems the same as does healing, relatively speaking.

Im not against Cruisers and KDF battle cruisets both getting a turmratr and onertia rating buff/fix to be more nimble but also not erasing the existing difference between flying fed versus KDF.
Also as long as it does not infringe on the territory of the escort.
Richard Hamilton (1975-2014)
goodbye good friend. We will see you in the DMZ in the sky oneday, save a shot for us.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,605
# 246
10-02-2012, 08:31 PM
Guys can we stay on topic. As dontdrunkimshoot pointed out, NONE of this cruisers vs escorts really has anything to do with asking for a better turn rate. And roach is right, as I posted in my most recent post, cruisers were never nerfed, but neither have they been enhanced to match the current gamestyle.

So basically back on topic, I think most of us are in agreement that a turn rate buff of +2 to fed cruisers, and maybe one to KDF battlecruisers is a fair ask right?
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Why the Devs can't make PvE content harder. <--- DR proved me wrong!
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,178
# 247
10-02-2012, 08:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemepwe View Post
True, all the new stuff allows many vessels to strecth outside thier normal chatacteristics.

Burst still seems the same as does healing, relatively speaking.

Im not against Cruisers and KDF battle cruisets both getting a turmratr and onertia rating buff/fix to be more nimble but also not erasing the existing difference between flying fed versus KDF.
Also as long as it does not infringe on the territory of the escort.
indeed. the bug and other 5 tac console ships for offense, and the tholian ships for healing and defense, even the flagships too.

if you gave a vorcha and ktinga any more turn rate they would squarely be in escort territory, with 1 or 2 turn consoles they are in the mid 20s for turn rate, thats more then enough to make DHCs work, especially if you use TB, TBR, EWP, and APO in the fleet vorcha. i just cant support kdf cruisers getting more turn rate because it would push rapters even more off to the side. though their inertia scores at least on the vorcha and ktinga are much lower then they should be, that getting raised im for.

+10 inertia to negvar, vorcha, and ktinga, +2 turn for all fed cruisers and fed clone kdf cruisers.

fed cruisers would still be extreamly far behind their extreamly dangerous and varied escorts, the offense difference and defense difference between the 2 would still be huge.


and fed cruisers arent a joke, haven't been nerfed or any of that crap. as long as i focus everything on defense, i can tank 2 bug ships in a fed cruiser build im using now, damage potential is hilariously behind healing potential, as long as a cruiser makes no effort to kirk it up.
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 232
# 248
10-02-2012, 10:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hereticknight085 View Post
Guys can we stay on topic. As dontdrunkimshoot pointed out, NONE of this cruisers vs escorts really has anything to do with asking for a better turn rate. And roach is right, as I posted in my most recent post, cruisers were never nerfed, but neither have they been enhanced to match the current gamestyle.

So basically back on topic, I think most of us are in agreement that a turn rate buff of +2 to fed cruisers, and maybe one to KDF battlecruisers is a fair ask right?
Well, sooner or later someone has to protest this in the name of Sci-ships.
Protest!

... okay, seriously: the current relative mobility of Carrier < Cruiser < Battle Cruiser < Sci < Escort/Raptor < BoP makes sense. And really should be kept.
On the other hand, I certainly understand that flying bricks is not very fun.

What could be done: A general mobility upgrade, for ALL ships.
That's upgrades to Turn-rate and/or Inertia.
No more than ~20/25% increase to mobility though.

But: Even this would have impact on game balance.
- combat would be more fast-paced, and at shorter range.
- it would be more difficult to keep attacking the same shield facing.
- frontal arc powers would get an indirect buff by doing this.
- game-play for escorts/raptors and BoPs would become even more twitchy.
- carriers could become just a bit too much too strong - but carriers are even more effected by the "not fun to fly"-problem, and not buffing them too would leave them behind.

As said before: I can understand the desire for less bricky ships. But not at the expense of gamebalance, and not out of some selfish "I want my ship to be the best"-motivation. And I really don't see much concern for gamebalance in this thread ...
If I were the devs, I'd rather keep things as they are then follow one of the ideas in this thread so far, you're totally ignoring any consequences beyond "'would be more fun for me" ... and that's just short-sighted.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 157
# 249
10-02-2012, 11:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
indeed. the bug and other 5 tac console ships for offense, and the tholian ships for healing and defense, even the flagships too.

if you gave a vorcha and ktinga any more turn rate they would squarely be in escort territory, with 1 or 2 turn consoles they are in the mid 20s for turn rate, thats more then enough to make DHCs work, especially if you use TB, TBR, EWP, and APO in the fleet vorcha. i just cant support kdf cruisers getting more turn rate because it would push rapters even more off to the side. though their inertia scores at least on the vorcha and ktinga are much lower then they should be, that getting raised im for.

+10 inertia to negvar, vorcha, and ktinga, +2 turn for all fed cruisers and fed clone kdf cruisers.

fed cruisers would still be extreamly far behind their extreamly dangerous and varied escorts, the offense difference and defense difference between the 2 would still be huge.


and fed cruisers arent a joke, haven't been nerfed or any of that crap. as long as i focus everything on defense, i can tank 2 bug ships in a fed cruiser build im using now, damage potential is hilariously behind healing potential, as long as a cruiser makes no effort to kirk it up.

I like the way you think though just a thought, having cruisers up to turn rate of 9, would the Nebula class then need a turn rate increase?

Last edited by chi1701d; 10-03-2012 at 12:11 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,351
# 250
10-03-2012, 11:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chi1701d View Post
So if im understanding this right, the smaller the ship in mass and size means higher inertia which means higher turn rate?
Yes, they look at the ships mass as an "inertial encumbrance penalty". Think of the inertia rating as a 1-100 scale; 100 being the least encumbered and 1 the most encumbered, due to its mass. That factored is then used as a multiplier factor in the actual "real" turn rate value.
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:33 AM.