Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,757
# 31
09-20-2012, 09:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by whamhammer1 View Post
That's the point that I was thinking about. Klinks can have better turn rates and DHC/DC and Feds have more hull and shield multipliers. Otherwise whats the difference between each others ship than the distinctive smell of the Klingon ships
It is a rather pleasant odor.

Turn and Hull multipliers for teh KDf only.
The KDF uses Cannons more prevelantly becuase as a design thier vessels are not multitaskers like the federation Cruisers but built for warfare and conquest.

The feds trek the universe in hopes of finding new societies to join or trade with in the hopes of making new friends, while the KDf patrols the Universe looking for the next race to conquer and bring into the Klingon Empire as a resource provider. Very few races are treated like the Gorn and Orions and given such equal standing.

Frankly factional vessel differences became unbalanced when the Devs starting rebalancing everything based on player feedback. Now there is little difference in how ones vessel choice within a faction feels in iether faction.
Roy Hatch (stryker) soldier, friend, and good man.
1945-2014
RIP

Last edited by bitemepwe; 09-20-2012 at 09:58 AM.
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 462
# 32
09-20-2012, 10:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by misterde3 View Post
HMM, well I've been thinking about this.
And maybe it would make more sense to give both sides differnt flavours of cruiser:
large cruisers that can tank much (Galaxy/Star Cruiser/Negh'varMarauder)
medium cruisers that tank less and maneuver more (Sovereign/Vor'cha)
and small cruisers that can tank even less but actually turn really well (Excelsior/K't'inga).
Right now it seems rather arbitrary which ships have which turnrate and why, at least on the Fed side.
This would be the preferable solution and the one I expect the STO-Devs to embrace given past history. I don't see a point in restricting players to one faction or another just to be optimal at a certain style of play.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,522
# 33
09-20-2012, 10:47 AM
at the end of the day these ships are just a collection of stats, it doesn't mater what they look like, they should all be on equal terms, giving up 1 thing for an advantage in another. the bortas and the orian ships would get the same buff i would give to fed cruiser turn rate, they are stat clones of fed ships after all.

to say fed cruisers can tank better is an illusion, not counting how much better maco shield is then KHG shield. the ships both have the same access to abilities, only the kdf ships can use higher damage, low arc weapons easier, turn to protect damaged shield facings better, and get turned around and fly toward someone that needs heals more easily. they give up 1 device slot and maybe a tiny amount of hull for this, wile also getting a cloak. the fed ships simply cant do any of that with their crap turn rate, and they get to slot an extra battery to make up for it.

the kdf raptors and bops being inadequate is another issue, id like to see it addressed as much as i would like fed cruisers stop being a turn rate anomaly in this game.
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Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,383
# 34
09-20-2012, 11:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
at the end of the day these ships are just a collection of stats, it doesn't mater what they look like, they should all be on equal terms, giving up 1 thing for an advantage in another. the bortas and the orian ships would get the same buff i would give to fed cruiser turn rate, they are stat clones of fed ships after all.

to say fed cruisers can tank better is an illusion, not counting how much better maco shield is then KHG shield. the ships both have the same access to abilities, only the kdf ships can use higher damage, low arc weapons easier, turn to protect damaged shield facings better, and get turned around and fly toward someone that needs heals more easily. they give up 1 device slot and maybe a tiny amount of hull for this, wile also getting a cloak. the fed ships simply cant do any of that with their crap turn rate, and they get to slot an extra battery to make up for it.

the kdf raptors and bops being inadequate is another issue, id like to see it addressed as much as i would like fed cruisers stop being a turn rate anomaly in this game.
Very true, i couldn't say it better.
I think the main problem is that the devs estimate some powers just in the wrong way.
For example, a higher turn rate is much more valuable than a ship device slot.
As you said, being able to use much more powerful weapons (DHCs) is much more valuable than 5 or 10 percent more hull. In a game where you can heal 50 percent of your hull in seconds a difference of 5 or 10 percent more or less hull means nothing.


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The "TT and/or AtB less builds" - Thread
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,450
# 35
09-20-2012, 11:17 AM
The turnrates are fine for pressure dps broadside beamboat w/repair support roles. The problem is since Season 5 the defensive boosts in terms of Doffs, Stats, STF, skill buffs (RSP) and other gear has boosted defense to the point that the beam broadside dps isn't nearly as effective as it once was and the need for x-repairs has diminished compared to what it used to be.

So, now people want to use cruisers as the KDF BCs to feel like they're contributing rather than creating an environment to make the broadside beamboats usefull again. The influx of Lotto ships, Z-store ships, and Fleet ships w/o balance considerations hasn't helped any either.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 116
# 36
09-20-2012, 12:55 PM
So, the real elephant in the room isn't even turn rates. It's that beams are severely underwhelming compared to cannons. This is why anytime you see a beam-wielding escort in your STF, you groan. Solution: Nudge beams up a bit to make them more competitive against cannons.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,912
# 37
09-20-2012, 01:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkname View Post
beams are severely underwhelming compared to cannons.Solution: Nudge beams up a bit to make them more competitive against cannons.
THANK YOU!

Now if only the devs would do something about this and one of the games MAJOR issues would be sorted
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,027
# 38
09-20-2012, 01:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkname View Post
So, the real elephant in the room isn't even turn rates. It's that beams are severely underwhelming compared to cannons. This is why anytime you see a beam-wielding escort in your STF, you groan. Solution: Nudge beams up a bit to make them more competitive against cannons.
That would affect everyone using beams.
That would include Beam Escorts, Sci Ships etc.
The Solution that would IMO make more sense would be to properly reflect what Roach said about Feds having larger power reserves on their giant cruisers:
Give the Fed cruisers more bonus power overall.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 39
09-20-2012, 01:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemepwe View Post
I was under the Impression that the differences the lower turnrates of the fed cruisers represent where canonical in nature.
Is this the one-way street where canon is used to justify a really terrible mechanic when the rest of the game tosses cannon out the window?

Like the KDF having dedicated Sci ships?

Somethings need to be in a game for simple quality of life and mechanical balance.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemepwe View Post
Mainly that the federation/ Star Fleet has better Warp technology and shield technology and the Klingons/KDF has more hull and better impulse technology. The better impulse technology being why thier vessels turn better for the most part.
Most Fed ships don't have better warp or shield technology, and better warp technology is also completely irrelevant in a game that favors combat over everything.


Quote:
Originally Posted by phyrexianhero View Post
Does that mean KDF ships are better?
It means KDF Cruisers are better, which they are.

The Raptors are inferior to Fed Escorts, on the flip side. (Although the Destroyers are generally very good).


Quote:
Originally Posted by phyrexianhero View Post
No. There are a whole host of other factors -- number of crew, bridge officer, console, and device slots (all Fed T5 cruisers have 4 devices, all KDF T5 battle cruisers have 3 devices except for the Bortas/Bortasqu') all make a difference.
1) Crew is irrelevant.
2) 1 Device slot is inferior to the Higher Turn rate, DHCs and Cloaking ability of the KDF BCs.
3) There is no disparity in consoles, at least I can't think of any of the top of my head with regards to Cruisers vs. KDF BCs.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 267
# 40
09-20-2012, 01:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
at the end of the day these ships are just a collection of stats, it doesn't mater what they look like, they should all be on equal terms, giving up 1 thing for an advantage in another. the bortas and the orian ships would get the same buff i would give to fed cruiser turn rate, they are stat clones of fed ships after all.

to say fed cruisers can tank better is an illusion, not counting how much better maco shield is then KHG shield. the ships both have the same access to abilities, only the kdf ships can use higher damage, low arc weapons easier, turn to protect damaged shield facings better, and get turned around and fly toward someone that needs heals more easily. they give up 1 device slot and maybe a tiny amount of hull for this, wile also getting a cloak. the fed ships simply cant do any of that with their crap turn rate, and they get to slot an extra battery to make up for it.

the kdf raptors and bops being inadequate is another issue, id like to see it addressed as much as i would like fed cruisers stop being a turn rate anomaly in this game.

I could not agree more or convey it any better myself.
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