Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,268
# 41
09-20-2012, 02:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by misterde3 View Post
That would affect everyone using beams.
That would include Beam Escorts, Sci Ships etc.
That's the point, Beams themselves are very underpowered, 1 DHC does 4 times the damage of 1 beam array (2x damage per hit and 2x firing rate, I looked this up ingame) so the guy is right beams need a damage boost


Quote:
Originally Posted by misterde3 View Post
Give the Fed cruisers more bonus power overall.
As for this... well this is laughable, I can throw the weapon power on my cruiser off the scale, it still doesn't help me get beyond 1700 damage per hit.

Cruisers don't need more energy, beams need more damage
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 267
# 42
09-20-2012, 02:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adamkafei View Post
That's the point, Beams themselves are very underpowered, 1 DHC does 4 times the damage of 1 beam array (2x damage per hit and 2x firing rate, I looked this up ingame) so the guy is right beams need a damage boost


As for this... well this is laughable, I can throw the weapon power on my cruiser off the scale, it still doesn't help me get beyond 1700 damage per hit.

Cruisers don't need more energy, beams need more damage
Don't forget the Devs need to STOP NERFING POWERS every 30 days. It kills the game for a casual player or for someone who only plays 1-2 hours per night. Does anyone else find it freakin' maddening to have to constantly swap out your powers or skills in PvP all the time and even more so for PvE? It's crazy. I know the Devs don't want the "perfect build" being able to be created, but with them constantly screwing with stuff, I've found I particuarly don't care about my build any longer. I used to spend lots of $$$ on Lobi stuff looking for a slight edge...but why bother? In fact, what chance do I stand playing a few hours per night, against someone who logs in 7-8+ hours per day? It's not even close, nor is it worth PvP anymore.

Weapon power, ship turning and LESS nerfing I would say are my 3 biggest beefs with the game at this time.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,834
# 43
09-20-2012, 02:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by p2wsucks View Post
The turnrates are fine for pressure dps broadside beamboat w/repair support roles. The problem is since Season 5 the defensive boosts in terms of Doffs, Stats, STF, skill buffs (RSP) and other gear has boosted defense to the point that the beam broadside dps isn't nearly as effective as it once was and the need for x-repairs has diminished compared to what it used to be.

So, now people want to use cruisers as the KDF BCs to feel like they're contributing rather than creating an environment to make the broadside beamboats usefull again. The influx of Lotto ships, Z-store ships, and Fleet ships w/o balance considerations hasn't helped any either.
I never saw Federation Cruisers a Healboats (in a canon sense).


You are right, Beam Arrays should be stronger, as they are now you can't even scratch someones hull.

To be honest, i wouldn't even notice if my crusier (fed) would have one less device slot.
They are far less useful than a Tac console slot, a higher turn rate or even more ship power in general.

But i am also in favour to give Cruisers a similar turnrate as Science ships. Not because they could do their job better, but it is just boring to fly a ship that needs 45 seconds for a 360 degrees turn.
It is just not fun to fly a unmaneuverable slow ship with no firepower that serves only as target practice for enemy escorts.


Live long and prosper.

-> -> -> STO players unite and say NO to ARC <- <- <-
T6 Guardian Class design / A 25th century Ambassador refit
Ensign
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 5
# 44
09-20-2012, 02:54 PM
@travelingmaster

Quote:
No. Fed cruisers are just fine, assuming you know how to use the darn things. They aren't supposed to be nimble.

If you really want a nimble cruiser, just get some evasive maneuver Conn doffs, stock up with Aux2Dampeners and other mobility-boosters (including engine batteries), and get Pattern Omega if your cruiser of choice has a LTC tac slot.

You want an innately nimble cruiser, join KDF and fly a Vor'cha (or the fleet Tor'kaht).
I'm looking at this game as a whole in terms of balance. Players should not have to go to KDF just to fly a more nimble ship. This is also a request, rather than a topic of debate.

Ships should be fun to fly as another person stated, granted cruiser are meant for tanking. However, that does not mean turning ships like the Galaxy into an elephant
on ice.

Ruling out the Federation faction because their cruisers have been given low turn rates is unacceptable, and it is a poor way of balancing between their respective KDF counterparts.

Lets also consider most KDF ships get to use cannons. The higher turn rate in combination with cannons makes them more effective in PVP and PVE, and they can cloak.

I can go on and on about how KDF ships are better, but I'm just going to keep it simple and give all Federation cruisers a bit more turn rate. I think I agree with dotkimdontshoot and say give all Fed cruisers +2 turn rate. That does away with fussing about other mechanics.

Last edited by juniormint10; 09-20-2012 at 03:02 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,268
# 45
09-20-2012, 03:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by paragon92518 View Post
Don't forget the Devs need to STOP NERFING POWERS every 30 days. It kills the game for a casual player or for someone who only plays 1-2 hours per night. Does anyone else find it freakin' maddening to have to constantly swap out your powers or skills in PvP all the time and even more so for PvE? It's crazy.
This is true, if they were to reset the combat system to the way it was going into F2P all the balance issues would be fixed (with the turn rate exception but I fly an excelsior so I barely notice it) also if you want a fair build you can settle on I can give you mine,,, until they nerf cruisers/buff escorts yet again it will hold it's own in 1 on 1 and can tank fairly well in PvE (though don't try it on with a tac cube... I promise you will go boom), I fly circles round most cruisers and beat the oddy and regent on every occation I have fought them (i even managed it with a grade 41 tac with nothing better than Mk VIII stuff on the ship) also as it doesn't rely on any 'powerful skills' I doubt they will be nerfed and thus it holds a stronger position than some of the 'better' builds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by juniormint10 View Post
Ships should be fun to fly as another person stated, granted cruiser are meant for tanking. However, that does not mean turning ships like the Galaxy into an elephant on ice.
also I think your elephant on ice would turn faster than the ingame Galaxy class...
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,495
# 46
09-20-2012, 03:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by juniormint10 View Post
@travelingmaster



I'm looking at this game as a whole in terms of balance. Players should not have to go to KDF just to fly a more nimble ship. This is also a request, rather than a topic of debate.

Ships should be fun to fly as another person stated, granted cruiser are meant for tanking. However, that does not mean turning ships like the Galaxy into an elephant
on ice.

Ruling out the Federation faction because their cruisers have been given low turn rates is unacceptable, and it is a poor way of balancing between their respective KDF counterparts.
That's a bit of a strawman as there are many good turnrate Fed Escorts and Sci ships. Even the Ods can boost it's turnrate w/saucer sep (the issue then becomes inertia rating). This doesn't even count the Galor nor Ferengi Cruiser lotto ships. If you really want to make the slow boats turn better you're going to have to do like the others have mentioned and use things like Aux2damp, Omega Shields, APO on the few that have the option, evasives w/doffs, deut device, etc.

I prefer to fly nimble ships myself, but that doesn't mean I think slow broadside ships shouldn't exist. It just so happens Feds have more of those than KDF. It'd be like me complaining about KDF not having a nimble Sci ship (and no the BoP isn't even close to a Sci ship).

Fyi, crew does matter for Tac Team effectiveness and subsystem repairs.

KDF BCs don't have the tank capability b/c they're designed to be used more offensively, cannons work w/Dem better which means less Boff slot(s) for repair abilities. This means doubling down on things like RSP or EPTS3 which means less team repair abilities. They're not even close to the same roles Fed Cruisers are intended for.

If you want a better turnrate and some Eng options use the Z-Store Carrier Escort.

Edit: To respond to poster's edit

KDF Raiders, Sci Ships, Cross Repair Cruisers, Escort options are and have been for a long time worse than Fed options. The KDF carriers are better at pressure DPS and using OP pets. KDF BCs are better at applying pressure dps and in the Fleet Tor'Kaht's case better than most KDF options for even Escorts. So, no KDF ships aren't better.

Last edited by p2wsucks; 09-20-2012 at 03:16 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,495
# 47
09-20-2012, 03:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yreodred View Post
I never saw Federation Cruisers a Healboats (in a canon sense).


You are right, Beam Arrays should be stronger, as they are now you can't even scratch someones hull.

To be honest, i wouldn't even notice if my crusier (fed) would have one less device slot.
They are far less useful than a Tac console slot, a higher turn rate or even more ship power in general.

But i am also in favour to give Cruisers a similar turnrate as Science ships. Not because they could do their job better, but it is just boring to fly a ship that needs 45 seconds for a 360 degrees turn.
It is just not fun to fly a unmaneuverable slow ship with no firepower that serves only as target practice for enemy escorts.


Live long and prosper.
What role do you see the Fed Cruisers having if not the pressure DPS w/cross repair support?
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,268
# 48
09-20-2012, 03:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by p2wsucks View Post
I prefer to fly nimble ships myself, but that doesn't mean I think slow broadside ships shouldn't exist. It just so happens Feds have more of those than KDF
The problem with longer fed ships isn't the turn rate, I can hold a target in my broadside easily without RCS consoles the problem with "Slow broadside ships" is their broadside is worthless, if I get caught in a broadside the only thing I notice is the pretty show of lights, the damage is non-existent 200 per hit unbuffed... big deal... use rotate shield frequencies, suddenly your shield regen faster that the broadside is damaging them.

due to the point above, why use a broadside, 1 ability makes it utterly worthless and before anyone says anything NO THEY SHOULD NERF THE ABILITY!
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,495
# 49
09-20-2012, 03:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adamkafei View Post
The problem with longer fed ships isn't the turn rate, I can hold a target in my broadside easily without RCS consoles the problem with "Slow broadside ships" is their broadside is worthless, if I get caught in a broadside the only thing I notice is the pretty show of lights, the damage is non-existent 200 per hit unbuffed... big deal... use rotate shield frequencies, suddenly your shield regen faster that the broadside is damaging them.

due to the point above, why use a broadside, 1 ability makes it utterly worthless and before anyone says anything NO THEY SHOULD NERF THE ABILITY!
Please see my 1st post in this thread #35.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,268
# 50
09-20-2012, 03:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by p2wsucks View Post
Please see my 1st post in this thread #35.
fair enough, I mentioned another major cause of the imbalance, see my first post on the subject: # 10 (got completely ignored)
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