Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,481
# 51
09-20-2012, 02:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adamkafei View Post
fair enough, I mentioned another major cause of the imbalance, see my first post on the subject: # 10 (got completely ignored)
Regarding the PvE aspect, the Fleet missions are better designed for multiroles rather than raw dps. Protecting transports and No Win Scenario especially. I think more missions like those would continue to make the broadsiding/repairing role viable in PvE.

For PvP in good fights Extend Shields is still needed (though not as much) and we're agreed on the lacking broadside damage. To me though I'd boost all weapons damage (ie MK XIV) and Sci abilities which would help offset all the defensive boosts since Season 5. I'm not sure where the current "cap" for weapons power is, but I'd have cruiser have say 150 so they're always at a consistant rate if they'd like. Escorts would have the normal cap to better fit their spike design.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,825
# 52
09-20-2012, 02:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by p2wsucks View Post
What role do you see the Fed Cruisers having if not the pressure DPS w/cross repair support?

I said i don't see them as healboats.
They should be good in pressure DPS as you call it, in general Battlefield control, but mostly the should shine as multirole ships that can take care of themselves when there is no other ship as support.
I just refuse to see the Galaxy Class/Sovereign or even the Nebula as a ship that maily sends repair teams to defiant like ships, while those are fighting an enemiy.


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Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,051
# 53
09-20-2012, 02:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by p2wsucks View Post
I'd boost all weapons damage
I wouldn't as I mention earlier 1 DHC already does 4x the damage per hit (which means even more DPS) of 1 beam array I already say that's more than enough damage for 1 ship. I take my escort into a 20 fleet defence and have no trouble killing stuff solo (except the siege cruisers at the end) yet my cruiser (running tetryon for added shield stripping) spends 10 minutes bouncing fire off a standard cruisers shields having... wait for it... ZERO effect while this this erodes away at my shields using TWO beams to my SIX that say's EVERYTHING
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,051
# 54
09-20-2012, 02:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yreodred View Post

I said i don't see them as healboats.
They should be good in pressure DPS as you call it, in general Battlefield control, but mostly the should shine as multirole ships that can take care of themselves when there is no other ship as support.
I just refuse to see the Galaxy Class/Sovereign or even the Nebula as a ship that maily sends repair teams to defiant like ships, while those are fighting an enemiy.


Live long and prosper.
Thanks, this is the point I've been making for ages... look at the dominion war for example, they had a group of escorts... had a small fleet of the things yet they were out-classed AND out-gunned by a 200 yes two hundred year old cruiser...

would you escort fanatics like to explain therefore why my cruiser should either: be unable to destroy anything on it's own OR have the damage capacity to do that and have no ability to survive and thus be unable to destroy anything at all?
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,481
# 55
09-20-2012, 02:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adamkafei View Post
I wouldn't as I mention earlier 1 DHC already does 4x the damage per hit (which means even more DPS) of 1 beam array I already say that's more than enough damage for 1 ship. I take my escort into a 20 fleet defence and have no trouble killing stuff solo (except the siege cruisers at the end) yet my cruiser (running tetryon for added shield stripping) spends 10 minutes bouncing fire off a standard cruisers shields having... wait for it... ZERO effect while this this erodes away at my shields using TWO beams to my SIX that say's EVERYTHING
Please don't take this the wrong way, but have you read the Cruiser build threads in the PvP forums? They may help your DPS output. I don't think you should have the trouble you're having w/PvE NPCs.

There's 2 threads 2.0 and 3.0, the OP of them does a very good job detailing strength weaknesses and builds.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,481
# 56
09-20-2012, 02:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yreodred View Post

I said i don't see them as healboats.
They should be good in pressure DPS as you call it, in general Battlefield control, but mostly the should shine as multirole ships that can take care of themselves when there is no other ship as support.
I just refuse to see the Galaxy Class/Sovereign or even the Nebula as a ship that maily sends repair teams to defiant like ships, while those are fighting an enemiy.


Live long and prosper.
I guess I was looking for a more detailed reply. For example, by Battlefield control would you like passive "leadership" type boosts to allies in the zone, eg similar to EvE Commader ships?

Keep in mind I recall various occassions Captains sending repair teams and Extending shields as far as IP consistancy is concerned regarding the repair support role.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,051
# 57
09-20-2012, 02:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by p2wsucks View Post
Please don't take this the wrong way, but have you read the Cruiser build threads in the PvP forums? They may help your DPS output. I don't think you should have the trouble you're having w/PvE NPCs.
As a matter of fact I have had a look at those and I tried out the dual EPtX powers and found it didn't work for me, I found I could get an EPtS when I REALLY needed one or I couldn't get EPtW when I REALLY needed it.

I also put a tactical in the same ship (Boff skills, relevant DOFFs, same equipment standard, same power levels, I originally built the toon for that ship before I put them in an escort, etc, etc) and had the same DPS problem my engineer has so I think I've hit the combined limit of the ship and beams and it SUCKS
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 116
# 58
09-20-2012, 02:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by misterde3 View Post
That would affect everyone using beams.
That would include Beam Escorts, Sci Ships etc.
Yes, yes it would. That's sort of the point. The effect on escorts would be sort of low, though, since at the moment beam escorts are a fail anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by adamkafei View Post
As a matter of fact I have had a look at those and I tried out the dual EPtX powers and found it didn't work for me, I found I could get an EPtS when I REALLY needed one or I couldn't get EPtW when I REALLY needed it.
Say what? You mean you COULDN'T get it when you really needed one? How's that work? Those builds are designed to have both of those powers running constantly. You bind those powers to a button, flip fire select to full auto, and then tape the button down. Are you being subnuc'ed or something?

Last edited by jkname; 09-20-2012 at 02:59 PM.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 273
# 59
09-20-2012, 03:10 PM
I fly the Science Bortasqu' (as I mentioned earlier), which has a lower turn rate than the Odyssey, has a cloak (which is only 80% as effective) and can equip DHC's. Equipping DHC's on it is a ridiculous idea because you'll never get to use them most of the time, so the option is either Beams or Turrets, preferrably Beams because they do more damage.

I can tell you, I do enough damage as it is in the Bortasqu' as it is with 7 Beams and 1 DH Beam. I have a Boff layout identical to a Star Cruiser (with the exception of a Beam Overload 2 instead of APD1) to help exploit the tankiness of it and use the Battle side of it in the weapons, and I fly it in an Engineer and tear things apart. Discounting the Autocannon (special console which actually I don't use half the time), as soon as I broadside another players ship, I can tell they are taking damage because of the sheer power of the ship I am flying.

The Science Bortasqu' has +10 Weapons and +10 Shields. The +10 Weapons is matched byt he Regent and the Tac Odyssey, so both are capable of doing the same (especially the Odyssey, which can be setup almost identically). Of course the difference is the the 4 Tactical Console compared to the 3 of the Tact Odyssey, but 1 console less doesn't make as much of a difference with Beams compared to DHC's, meaning it could be considered effectively null.

In either case, assuming I set up my Odyssey identically to my Bortasqu' with Disruptor Beams etc., I can asure you that I would do damage on a similar level to it (slightly less due to a loss of only 1 Tac console).

My point is, it really is a matter of setting your ship up. The Bortasqu' is just a beefed up Fed Cruiser on the Klingon side if you look at it, so Fed ships have no real reason to say they can't do damage, its just the setup of the ship that matters.
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,481
# 60
09-20-2012, 03:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adamkafei View Post
As a matter of fact I have had a look at those and I tried out the dual EPtX powers and found it didn't work for me, I found I could get an EPtS when I REALLY needed one or I couldn't get EPtW when I REALLY needed it.

I also put a tactical in the same ship (Boff skills, relevant DOFFs, same equipment standard, same power levels, I originally built the toon for that ship before I put them in an escort, etc, etc) and had the same DPS problem my engineer has so I think I've hit the combined limit of the ship and beams and it SUCKS
Something seems off, I'd like to not derail this thread. So, I'll just offer a few suggestions (keep in mind it's been a very long time since I flew a Fed cruiser).

For PvE use APB (or APD) and FAW broadside w/Tet glider and DEM3. Even though DEM doesn't work so well w/Beams it's still xtra damage and really manual shield distrobution or binding shield distrobution w/keep bind should keep you alive w/a couple of hull/shield rep boffs.

Fit a TB, it'll drop the main targets defense getting more hits and better quality hits.

Use EWP damage is nice, movement (defense) debuff is better.

Use Polaron or Phasers.

Invest Skill Points in flow caps and use flow cap consoles/deflector. This boosts Tet glider proc and polaron drain if you use it. Another option for Tet glider is to use 2 part jem set for xtra polaron damage boosts (basically the same as having an xtra Tac Console iirc).

Don't use ACC for PvE, Crit Hit and Crit Damage are better since NPCs don't have high defensive ratings and w/movement debuffs (TB EWP) you should have quality hits anyway. Last I heard FaW was broken and not taking ACC attributes into count anyway.

Use Aux2Batt w/Tech doffs to reduce DEM EWP etc cooldowns.
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