Cryptic Studios Team
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,216
# 11
09-20-2012, 07:08 PM
Just as a quick behind-the-scenes, we made a bunch of category cooldown adjustments internally this week which are going through testing now. This primarily decreases the cost of opportunity of using Science Abilities, but a few Engineering abilities may have benefited as well.
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Jeremy Randall
Cryptic - Systems Design
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 797
# 12
09-20-2012, 07:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
Just as a quick behind-the-scenes, we made a bunch of category cooldown adjustments internally this week which are going through testing now. This primarily decreases the cost of opportunity of using Science Abilities, but a few Engineering abilities may have benefited as well.
sounds promising... but i hope to god its not any engineer healing powers.....

its also sad to hear that it sounds like you went with the skill power cooldown/global cooldown adjustment route rather then the skill tree for science first.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,527
# 13
09-20-2012, 07:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
Just as a quick behind-the-scenes, we made a bunch of category cooldown adjustments internally this week which are going through testing now. This primarily decreases the cost of opportunity of using Science Abilities, but a few Engineering abilities may have benefited as well.
That does sound interesting.
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Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
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# 14
09-20-2012, 08:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
Just as a quick behind-the-scenes, we made a bunch of category cooldown adjustments internally this week which are going through testing now. This primarily decreases the cost of opportunity of using Science Abilities, but a few Engineering abilities may have benefited as well.
this is extreamly interesting.... let us in on them, im sure we could think of every possible exploit you could come up with with the new system cooldowns in 5 minutes we don't want this pushed live with exploitability any more then you do. we are all more then qualified QA techs lol

also, consider moving DEM or aceton beam down to ensign or something. at ensign level, all engineers have to choose from are EPtX skill that are all on the same cooldown, and a team skill that shares cooldowns with the other team skills. anything with 3 engineering ensigns suffers greatly because of this, in the Galaxy R's case, it basely makes it nonviable.


also, EPtW, EPtE, and EPtA are bugged. they give a power level bump for 30 seconds, but their additional benefit only lasts for 5 seconds. EPtS has a shield energy buff and a shield resistance buff that both work for 30 seconds. that inconsistency has long needed to be fixed, and surly confuses pve'ers. it might even break their immersion
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# 15
09-20-2012, 09:07 PM
Any chance any of these changes or tests include anything on the matter of using the b'rels projectile cloak mode. It just seems redundant how a lot of science abilities as well as to try to keep damage going in this b'rel requires you to constantly be decloaked especially when it comes to pvp which defeats the purpose of having that advantage it would be utterly like flying in a ship without a cloak with no shields and waving at an enemy team or group of players saying look at me... easy target get it while its hot

Edit: I'd just suggest as well to keep in mind the threat of the b'rel also instills value in the emission seeking torpedo which I wouldn't view it as pay to win because the b'rel isn't a free ship but neither is the console ship. So one must have a reason to value purchasing either one and those who own one or the other or both could use some more distinct value in these two parts of the game especially for PvP.

Last edited by zeuxidemus001; 09-20-2012 at 09:34 PM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 230
# 16
09-21-2012, 12:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
Just as a quick behind-the-scenes, we made a bunch of category cooldown adjustments internally this week which are going through testing now. This primarily decreases the cost of opportunity of using Science Abilities, but a few Engineering abilities may have benefited as well.
What makes you think that cooldowns are the problem and not the fact that your skilltree revamp rushjob has made CPB and TachBeam useless?
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# 17
09-21-2012, 02:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fakehilbert View Post
What makes you think that cooldowns are the problem and not the fact that your skilltree revamp rushjob has made CPB and TachBeam useless?
wile I'll take what i can get, ya science skill tree needs reordering big time
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Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,702
# 18
09-21-2012, 02:33 AM
yup, baby steps it is. I assume you didn't get the time allocation for a proper re-balancing of sci skills. It will have to happen at sometime.

All together now: |:Buff Eng Cpt!, Buff Sci BO powers:|
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Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 273
# 19
09-21-2012, 03:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by havam View Post
yup, baby steps it is. I assume you didn't get the time allocation for a proper re-balancing of sci skills. It will have to happen at sometime.

All together now: |:Buff Eng Cpt!, Buff Sci BO powers:|

Hmm... seems I'm out of upvotes. Oh. There are no upvotes. Quoted for support.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 881
# 20
09-21-2012, 04:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
Just as a quick behind-the-scenes, we made a bunch of category cooldown adjustments internally this week which are going through testing now. This primarily decreases the cost of opportunity of using Science Abilities, but a few Engineering abilities may have benefited as well.
Sounds good, but hopefully this is an instance of "measure a dozen times, cut once," rather than the more common "give it a day or two on Tribble and release as is." GCDs are a very important part of the balance discussion.

That being said, while we're still on the topic of GCDs how about changing TT/ST/ET to work the same way as other closely related skills?

For an example of how most skills that are a part of a larger family are handled, let's look at EPtX:
  1. If you have two Emergency Power to Shield abilities, the GCD is 30 seconds. The same is true for any two EPtX abilities where 'X' is the same between them.
  2. But if you have one copy of EPtS and one copy of either EPtA, EPtW, or EPtE the global cooldown is only 15 seconds.

When you think about it, it makes a lot of sense. If the GCD wasn't reduced in the second example you'd always take two of the same Emergency Power skills, usually EPtS. But because the opportunity cost is higher than mixing and matching you encourage more diversity. Other skills that have close relatives, like Target Subsystems, work the same way -- you incur smaller GCDs between close relatives than you do from two copies of the same skill.

Looking at the "team" family:
  1. If you have two copies of the same skill, for example two Engineering Teams, the GCD is 15 seconds.
  2. If you use different types of team abilities, for example one Tactical Team and one Science Team, the GCD is still 15 seconds. No other family of skills does this.

Besides being inconsistent with the rest of the game, this implementation creates serious gameplay issues.
  1. Different team abilities clear different debuffs, in addition to their other effects. Every team ability clears several debuffs that are completely debillitating if left unchecked. Not being able to clear boarding parties, grav pulse, or SNB means annoyance at best and death at worst. PvE and pugging strongly encourages players to be self reliant, so you take all three team abilities or at least two different ones.
  2. Those who play in premades know better. Why take three different team abilities when the GCD limits you to making use of at most two of them? And why take differing team abilities at all when the doff system makes it so easy to have two of the same and you gain the benefit of min/maxing? If you can't clear a debuff, just call for a teammate do it.
  3. So puggers and PvErs end up with non-optimal builds out of necessity. The way the GCD is handled exasperates the skill gap (chasm). Your goal should be to minimize that chasm in any and every way that doesn't sacrifice depth.

All of this can be fixed if you lower the GCD on different types of team abilities to 10 seconds. Two copies of the same team ability would still incur the full 15s GCD, but an Eng Team plus a Sci Team, or any similar mix, would only incur a 10s GCD. That way, players who don't have the luxury of min/maxing into one specific team ability gain some utility against those who do. Carrying one of every team ability would mean that you could use one every 10 seconds, while a min/maxed player with two of the same could only use them every 15.

Last edited by hurleybird; 09-21-2012 at 04:13 PM.
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