Lieutenant
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 61
# 1 All us premade people...
09-20-2012, 02:02 PM
Guys, guys, we really need to avoid PuGstomping. Look, I know it's fun and all, and really it is. I mean, getting on TS, forming up a full 5-man pre-made group and just utterly annihilating noobs can all be good fun, but remember that every time you're doing this, you're killing PvP!

Look, here's the thing right, we all whine and moan on this forum about how PvP seems to be dying and how Cryptic doesn't seem to care, but we don't stop to think how we're contributing to it. The only way PvP is gonna survive is if those random PuGs we like to rag on so much are willing to take a chance on a PvP queue.

Here's the problem though, let's say you're a newb. Note I said newb, NOT a noob. So you came in through free-to-play, and you've joined a friendly (but not PvP-oriented) fleet. Got yourself to VA and thought you'd give PvP a try.

You enter the queue, and you try your best. You're new to this game, so you don't know certain things. You don't know how important Tactical Team is. You don't realize Aceton Beam is a horrible skill. And you definitely don't know such advanced skills as keybinds to trigger multiple skills at once, or even just re-balancing your shields as you fire.

But you do know enough to shoot at your enemies and you hope to learn more and have fun doing it. Instead, you're up against a full fleet team of Sad Pandas, or Angry Clowns, or Show Me Your Critz, or S.O.B., or Nova Core, or whatever. So you get your ass stomped. Hard.

You die horribly, again and again. And not only that, you see your teammates warp off, or take off their shields and stop trying. Let me ask you guys in those fleets I mentioned, is it any challenge, or even any fun, to fight that? On top of it all, you still try your best, but nobody on either side is giving you any pointers. Or any help at all.

So the match ends. It's 15-0, NOT in your favor, and I don't think I'm gonna have to tell you what this newb is thinking about PvP right now. Who knows? With the right training, and the right help, he might be a monster in PvP someday. But it's not gonna happen, because he's NEVER gonna queue again.

Look, all I'm saying is that maybe we should look into something a bit different. How about, 4-man or even 3-man pre-mades? That way, at least the newb can end up on the OWNING side for once, and at the end if it maybe that fleet can give him some pointers on what he might have done wrong.

I'm just saying that it's up to us, the guys who've been PvPing a while and are in good PvP fleets, to try and promote our own format. Because if we keep doing what we're doing, we're gonna end up killing PvP for sure.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 566
# 2
09-20-2012, 02:12 PM
best thing I see in such cases is after 3-4 fast kills by premade, premade should split in 2 or 3 and take up on pugs like that. I was in few matches with nova core (as a kling) and when I asked them, they did split in 2, so I don't see why any premade won't do it... it makes it mor challenging for them also. In fact premades hate 15-0 same as pugs, since you don't realy pvp, its just a 5 min slaughter then another 5-10 min of wait to pop another queue.

Edit: sometime you end up having a really good pug, you may even beat some of the fleets that are using new pilots or are not as experienced, that's why I said after 3-4 kills, you see how the pug is and act accordingly.
Hear! Sons of Kahless
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 668
# 3
09-20-2012, 02:16 PM
The issue isn't premades really. No good premade forms up to go pug stomping. Mostly we are hoping to get other teams in the ques or at least teams with 2-3 people that are semi premaded. The game pop isn't high many people que up with 3-4 people.

I think we can all do a better job of helping out the new guys. Its not hard to see who they are. I mean we see the same faces in pvp over and over, spotting the new guy isn't rocket science. I sent a new guy 3 blue shield doffs the other night and talked to him about his build... he won't be an all star tommorow but at least he knows why X and Y didn't work well... and what he needs to change and work on.

The real issue as I see it is some of the fleets that don't seem to care about fun at all. I mean do you really need to que as a 5 man and click jevonite on all your ships ? Or run ams x 5... or theta vent on mulitple ships... or run with 2-3 carriers or escort carriers and a ton of Tractor beaming pets ? The people that do that are the ones destroying pvp.

Sure we could and likely should all be going out of our way more to help bring new players up to speed. I mean more players is good for all of us. I will say that it drives me nuts to see well known fleets running teams of bs... that gives the entire community a black eye imo.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 855
# 4
09-20-2012, 02:17 PM
They need to sticky this thread. That way we don't have to keep giving the same old tired responses to the same old tired line.

Premades don't ruin PvP. PUGs, that don't ignore their own ego long enough to realize that they are doing it wrong, ruin PvP.
Quote:
ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ RIYOTT ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ: Have you wondered that maybe all the things they've added to the gaem lately is to literally make PvP unbearable? Because everything they've added has no use in PvE at all; we know the big boss hates 14 yo min maxers
Lieutenant
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 61
# 5
09-20-2012, 02:21 PM
Well, see the issue I have with that line is that for the most part PuGs are new, not ego-driven. Every chance I get, when I see a newb get stomped, whichever team he's on, I try to reach out. PM him, asking if he wants any help with his build. A lot of the time, he's quite grateful.

Sure there's gonna be the occasional ego-driven idiot who tells me to stfu. I couldn't care less, I put him on ignore and move on. But I don't see this happening with many people. 90% of the time, they toss out a half-hearted, mostly insincere "gg" and the newb is still as much of a newb as when he went in. And THAT, imho, is what is killing PvP.

EDIT: I should mention, what I do (reaching out to the newbs) was how I was introduced to PvP. In other words, I was curbstomped in PvP, and my mentor, rather than sending a "u suk gtfo lololol" asked me if I wanted any help with my build. I'd have probably left PvP forever if he had just stayed silent, instead now I'm in a great fleet and I'm PvPing all the time. Reaching out makes a difference to newbs, whether you realize it or not. But you've gotta be willing to do it.

Last edited by ertihan; 09-20-2012 at 02:28 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 566
# 6
09-20-2012, 02:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by brandonfl View Post
They need to sticky this thread. That way we don't have to keep giving the same old tired responses to the same old tired line.

Premades don't ruin PvP. PUGs, that don't ignore their own ego long enough to realize that they are doing it wrong, ruin PvP.
That's not a bad idea. I would add to have this thread sticky-ed on pve forum though, lol so ppl should get the message.
Hear! Sons of Kahless
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 855
# 7
09-20-2012, 02:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ertihan View Post
Well, see the issue I have with that line is that for the most part PuGs are new, not ego-driven. Every chance I get, when I see a newb get stomped, whichever team he's on, I try to reach out. PM him, asking if he wants any help with his build. A lot of the time, he's quite grateful.

Sure there's gonna be the occasional ego-driven idiot who tells me to stfu. I couldn't care less, I put him on ignore and move on. But I don't see this happening with many people. 90% of the time, they toss out a half-hearted, mostly insincere "gg" and the newb is still as much of a newb as when he went in. And THAT, imho, is what is killing PvP.

EDIT: I should mention, what I do (reaching out to the newbs) was how I was introduced to PvP. In other words, I was curbstomped in PvP, and my mentor, rather than sending a "u suk gtfo lololol" asked me if I wanted any help with my build. I'd have probably left PvP forever if he had just stayed silent, instead now I'm in a great fleet and I'm PvPing all the time. Reaching out makes a difference to newbs, whether you realize it or not. But you've gotta be willing to do it.
The PvE in this game breeds bad players. You don't have to be good to spacebar your way through the story arc. Then you reach endgame, queue up for some PvP since there is nothing else interesting to do, and bam you're toast.

There are 2 ways to handle that situation.

1. Ask for help, because you know something is wrong.

2. Blame those Hax-ing Pandas or TSI or SOB... for not making it fair.

Should a player choose the 1st option, they have a chance. Most players in this game would be more than willing to offer help and advice. If you choose the 2nd option, well you end up with threads like this.
Quote:
ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ RIYOTT ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ: Have you wondered that maybe all the things they've added to the gaem lately is to literally make PvP unbearable? Because everything they've added has no use in PvE at all; we know the big boss hates 14 yo min maxers

Last edited by brandonfl; 09-20-2012 at 02:33 PM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,747
# 8
09-20-2012, 02:31 PM
stomping newbs is not fun, just sayin. we really arent enjoying it any more then those getting stomped, at least i dont.
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 855
# 9
09-20-2012, 02:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
stomping newbs is not fun, just sayin. we really arent enjoying it any more then those getting stomped, at least i dont.
QFT, not fun at all. Hell, the Pandas rarely team up for PvP anymore. If we do, it's most certainly not our normal premade and usually occurs because we heard another fleet had a 5-man in the queus but won't accept or acknowledge a challenge.
Quote:
ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ RIYOTT ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ: Have you wondered that maybe all the things they've added to the gaem lately is to literally make PvP unbearable? Because everything they've added has no use in PvE at all; we know the big boss hates 14 yo min maxers
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 165
# 10
09-20-2012, 02:53 PM
I have been on teams that get stomped by premades, but I have also been on pug teams that stomp premades, not often but sometimes. Usually when I see someone get mowed down ( yes mowed down like by a lawnmower) I offer to help them. Or when I get mowed down by someone ill ask for their advice.

Lately I have been sitting in esd space looking for 1v1 duels. One guy agreed, after seeing his ship I was sure it would be a close fight. Turns out it only took a couple DHC shots to defeat him. nonetheless he continued getting defeated 5 times. afterwards I offered to help him, a day lator and he is putting up a very good fight. He also recommended his friend get some tips. now both are considering joining the fleet im in. so if you see someone strugling help them, you'll be helping pvp stay alive, and possibly get more fleet members!

I fly the MVAE, and my build is decent, and maybe switching to the defiant or saving for a jem'hadar bug ship would help. but imo flying the MVAE is way more fun.
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