Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 597
# 1 Too Many Siphons
09-18-2012, 12:42 PM
Is it really necessary to allow players to have 7 Advanced Energy Siphon drones? Whats with the power draining as a fighting techneque because I don't know an active defense against it? When you have players that can just sit back and drain other players without having to fight whlie NPC's do all the work, destroys the balance in the game. These siphon drones are too tough to be destroy in tractor repulsor beam unless I use aux batteries but when i run out, then what? While you are busy trying to destroying the siphons which are tough like advanced runabouts, the player is destroying you. What ever happened to Player versus Player and the test of skill? PVP in STO has become Player with the deepest pocket wins, Player versus environment controlled by player, Player versus cheat codes. When people are allowed to be indestructable then the game is no longer competition.

Energy sighons are a bad idea and don't show skill at all, just laziness.

Last edited by alexindcobra; 09-18-2012 at 04:15 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 566
# 2
09-18-2012, 01:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexindcobra View Post
Is it really necessary to allow players to have 7 Advanced Energy Siphon drones? Whats with the power draining as a fighting techneque because I don't know an active defense against it? When you have players that can just sit back and drain other players without having to fight whlie NPC's do all the work, destroys the balance in the game. These siphon drones are too tough to be destroy in tractor repulsor beam unless I use aux batteries but when i run out, then what? While you are busy trying to destroying the siphons which are tough like advanced runabouts, the player is destroying you. What ever happened to Player versus Player and the test of skill? PVP in STO has become Player with the deepest pocket wins, Player versus environment controlled by player, Player versus cheat codes. When people are allowed to be indestructable then the game is no longer competition.

Engery sighons are a bad idea and don't show skill at all, just laziness.
Wait, it gets better with doffs, new spam every 10 sec. I can tell you that only a chained faw tac cruiser can keep the spam away, and maybe kill the carrier if the pilot doesn't suck. And best tac cruisers are also kdf... If you do fight a recluse with siphons, then just forget about killing the recluse... I know the insulator didn't resist them, I've heard they got fixed recently though, but I haven't confirmed it, so it's just a rumor so far for me. And yea, that's totally cheese. I can tell you that in attack mode, pets attack mines and torps first, so you may try puting some mines and see if that would buy you some time, since siphons can't kill mines as far as I know. The only use I see for siphons is in elite stf, when you don't want to waste time doing it properly. I have them, but don't use them in pvp for the above reasons.
Hear! Sons of Kahless
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,228
# 3
09-18-2012, 01:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by trueprom3theus View Post
Wait, it gets better with doffs, new spam every 10 sec. I can tell you that only a chained faw tac cruiser can keep the spam away, and maybe kill the carrier if the pilot doesn't suck. And best tac cruisers are also kdf... If you do fight a recluse with siphons, then just forget about killing the recluse... I know the insulator didn't resist them, I've heard they got fixed recently though, but I haven't confirmed it, so it's just a rumor so far for me. And yea, that's totally cheese. I can tell you that in attack mode, pets attack mines and torps first, so you may try puting some mines and see if that would buy you some time, since siphons can't kill mines as far as I know. The only use I see for siphons is in elite stf, when you don't want to waste time doing it properly. I have them, but don't use them in pvp for the above reasons.
Yip have to say I used to use them; now not so much. The only time I strap them on is when I run into AMS + Danubes. My mantra then becomes "two can play 'tis game, two can play 'tis game wooo-hahaha-ha"
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 566
# 4
09-18-2012, 02:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by drkfrontiers View Post
Yip have to say I used to use them; now not so much. The only time I strap them on is when I run into AMS + Danubes. My mantra then becomes "two can play 'tis game, two can play 'tis game wooo-hahaha-ha"
Yea, carrier vs carrier, sit back and enjoy the flight... Caugh... the npcs killing each other, lol.
Hear! Sons of Kahless
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,273
# 5
09-18-2012, 02:18 PM
Yeah, I haven't really seen siphons in action that much, but they're basically cheese. They're a cheap, dirty trick that most self-respecting PvPers don't use. Really, what's the fun in using such an OP setup? It's on par with flying an indestructible JHAS that can still shred right through Tactical Team.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,063
# 6
09-18-2012, 02:48 PM
it all come down to....well....

what i always say, is if you really wouldn't want to face your build because of its questionable layout.....then don't make others face it. (i hold myself to this standard. no p2w bs...pure maxing my build through console choices....i guess you could say one of my toons flying the bug is questionable to some people, but since i don't mind fighting them.....i fly one on one toon)

and i'm sure everyone here can agree, we like to be able to move, and we like power to our systems.

so, if your build takes advantage of loopholes in the game that allow you to totally deprive the opposing player of these basic fundamental necessities in the game, then, well....

you are just a jerk. but thats cool, i'm kind of a drunk ass-hole.

but honestly people, they go on carriers. its not like they can kill you without the toys, just stay 5 clicks away from them. let them suck nothing from thin air.


and to quote one of my favorite all time people, Duane The Rock The Tooth Fairy Johnson,

"if ya smell what the rock is cookin" then

have fun kill bad guys
Cryptic Studios Team
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,138
# 7
09-18-2012, 04:04 PM
We've been looking into the complaints about Siphon Drones and trying to figure out a balanced way of decreasing their effectiveness without diminishing to the point of making them feel like a wasted hangar slot.

Honestly, it's not easy to find that balancing point.

We've considered reducing their hitpoints, which would make them more susceptible to AOE damage countermeasures. This, in essence, makes it easier to counter them, but only if you have the proper powers equipped, and are not currently on cooldown. However, it presents the very negative experience to the owner of having their drones quickly dispatched without them having the chance to do their thing.

We've also tried having their drain-per-tick be based off of a percentage of the target's current power, but that actually managed to make them more effective, rather than less. Any subsystem running at low power was barely effected, while high-power systems took a major pounding. We didn't feel that was intuitive. Also, it still took systems offline almost as quickly since the minimum it could drain per tick was still 1 energy (magnitude rounding) and the initial uptick of drain was faster.

I guess that's a long-winded way of saying, we're trying to find a solution to a mechanic that's not quite behaving the way we'd like it to in PvP, and haven't yet come across one that we like. But we'll keep looking.
-=-=-=-=-=-
Jeremy Randall
Cryptic - Systems Design
"Play smart!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Me
Kurland here...
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,116
# 8
09-18-2012, 04:17 PM
I don't PVP much so maybe others can disect what I say here and propose something better... or just shoot me down.

Why not remove the Siphons and replace them with a new frigate that uses something like the Energy dissipator used by the Breen - "The weapon works by draining the energy of targeted ships, disabling their engines, weapons, and shields, thus making them easy targets for conventional weapons."

A couple of frigates with good hp and shields that can periodicly launch these stong pulses would be better than a constant drain no? And if story canon etc is an issue then something along the lines of the KDF saw how effective these weapons were and adapted them for use on KDF carriers.
Man is a gaming animal. He must always be trying to get the better in something or other.
Warning, this poster tends to talk nonsensically when caffine levels fall below 80%.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 597
# 9
09-18-2012, 04:27 PM
Hear is a fix, get rid of them. They don't serve a purpose in PVP and any selfrespecting player don't use them. When you have allowed the owners to deploy 7 at a time and the owner nolonger has to work for his victory then that defeats the purpose of PVP. It's like a drug, its doesn't help you fight better, just make you addicted to it. If you get rid of them, just give the owners something else, or some credits. You can't balance a cheat, you can only cut it out from the game.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 321
# 10
09-18-2012, 04:35 PM
borticuscryptic, how about they can only drain x amount before they have to dissipate that gained energy? they would still be initially deadly...but there would be a brief recovery time for the target before a new launch or the drones could begin siphoning again.

and there are counters, they're just not real useful in other PvP engagements. mines for one...new anti-fighter mines with a faster cd than standard anti-ship mines could be an addition. the downside it takes a weapons slot and not as effective vs other ships.

tractor-repulsors could have an added bonus vs small ships, some other sci abilities work pretty well as long as you're not drained before hand. increasing launch cd or having a min cd that doff's can't force it below would also help with the spammage.

i think i realize the issue with finding a way to make them less uber in PvP is that it also makes them less effective in PvE...difficult balancing act to say the least.
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