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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,937
# 21
09-26-2012, 07:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by flash525 View Post
We are told that CBS lays down the law in regard to what is and what isn't allowed. We were also told that the Galor and D'Kora were to remain rare (cause CBS didn't want everyone flying around in them; reasonable, it's logical. It's not like Starfleet would be issuing a Federation crew with a Galor Cruiser anyway) but here's the snag, at our request, the Galor, D'Kora and Tholian ships have suddenly become more available to everyone. The chance of attaining one has increased. I can't believe for a single moment that this was a choice by CBS. I don't think they had any say on the lock box content, and that it's all Cryptics doing.
The problem with your argument is that it works under the assumption that CBS can't change it's mind - or that anyone or any corporation can't change its mind at a future point. As someone who ran his own corporation for well over a decade I can tell you that's simply never the case.

The thing about any business is that it set standards and then it's constantly adjusting those standards to fit the continuing markets they must operate in. What was right 4 years ago isn't right today, and that equally applies for 1 year ago, or even 6 months ago. In global recessions corporations' decisions are very bendy.

It's quite possible that CBS saw the revenues from the Lockboxes and decided they'd like more - as I'm sure their license probably includes a percentage of revenues. It's also possible that even though you see a lot of Lockbox ships that compared to the entire player-base it's still a very small percentage of the whole. 10,000 Lockbox ships in a 300,000 playerbase is only 3.3%. The simple truth is we have no idea how many ships from each Lockbox have been won or how many people are playing STO monthly.

A big problem on this forum is that people take everything said on it as an absolute. Life really isn't that simple. Just as you can change your mind about something 6 months from now so can the STO team, Cryptic, and CBS. That's the reality of life.

Last edited by thecosmic1; 09-26-2012 at 07:55 AM.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 32
# 22
09-26-2012, 08:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lazarus51166 View Post
lets start with the fact that they do not disclose the odds. lets also add in the fact that according to california state law this amounts to gambling, and its being encouraged for minors to participate. lets also add in there the offensive comments a certain dev made about being investigated, lets also add in there the fact that they are being investigated in at least two countries for unlawful business practices
Okay, getting down to some technical details here, but with gambling, you're usually spending money, and winning nothing - with lockboxes, you're always winning something, and IIRC Cryptic mentioned a while back that on average the winnings are worth more than the 125/112.5 Zen it costs to purchase a Master Key.

So, comparing Cryptic's lock boxes to gambling seems a bit off, doesn't it? I mean, you always get (at least from Cryptic's perspective) 112.5 Zen worth out of a lock box, and sometimes you get items worth WAY more than that.

It's in the "winner's" eyes to perceive if what they won is something truly rewarding or not, but technically they always win something worth at least what they paid. Is this still gambling? Certainly in a way, but I don't have an education in law or in gambling to tell me if this is unlawful or not.

By extension, do they have a similar issue (concerning the law) with purchasing and opening DOFF packs? It's random chance who you get, in addition to the fact that you may win the Tuffli freighter (and near the end of the Gamma Quadrant DOFF run, the Jem'Hadar Bug), or something far less appealing (but who wasn't excited to win some Dosi Rotgut lately!). The biggest difference I see between the purchasable DOFF packs and the lock box/Master Keys is the disparity between the lowest valued prize, and the highest. The lock box/Master Keys have bigger potential, thus greater angst when you 'win' something of lower value.

Just throwing in my two cents to give it another perspective.

I'm not sure about other MMO-like games, but I know Guild Wars 2 has a similar chest that you have to open with keys (granted, there are random key drops, so you can open them for free if you were doing a lot of grinding).
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,105
# 23
09-26-2012, 09:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecosmic1 View Post
The problem with your argument is that it works under the assumption that CBS can't change it's mind - or that anyone or any corporation can't change its mind at a future point. As someone who ran his own corporation for well over a decade I can tell you that's simply never the case.
You make a valid point, with one exception (that I may have overlooked):

You said: It's quite possible that CBS saw the revenues from the Lockboxes and decided they'd like more - as I'm sure their license probably includes a percentage of revenues. That's great, except why would they receive more revenue? The same people are going to be buying those keys. I don't see how they'd get any more money by suddenly deciding to release some unique ships some more.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,937
# 24
09-26-2012, 09:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by flash525 View Post
You make a valid point, with one exception (that I may have overlooked):

You said: It's quite possible that CBS saw the revenues from the Lockboxes and decided they'd like more - as I'm sure their license probably includes a percentage of revenues. That's great, except why would they receive more revenue? The same people are going to be buying those keys. I don't see how they'd get any more money by suddenly deciding to release some unique ships some more.
First, keep in mind that it's generally not only the same people buying Keys for something. Traditionally FTP games have a large turn-over in fans with many leaving and being replaced by new players - or being replaced by returning players who have been out of the loop for some time.

But even without factoring in new players the fact that the same people might be buying the Keys does not mean that everyone who wanted X from a particular Lockbox earned it the first time around. As long as there is a demand for something the revenues will be up due to people trying to get that something.

In simple terms: just because 5% of the players have something doesn't mean that 10%, or more, don't want it. As long as there's a "wanting" the potential for revenues exists.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 189
# 25
09-26-2012, 09:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lazarus51166 View Post
1. *is that a serious question? this has been discussed dozens upon dozens of times

lets start with the fact that they do not disclose the odds. lets also add in the fact that according to california state law this amounts to gambling, and its being encouraged for minors to participate. lets also add in there the offensive comments a certain dev made about being investigated, lets also add in there the fact that they are being investigated in at least two countries for unlawful business practices

2. *you mean like two countries investigating them for illegal activities? as it stands right now, anyone does have grounds to file such action, if they wanted to. however their gain would only be the money they paid into it back, which normally would be far less than they would pay in legal costs. thats why no individual person has filed such a suit



3. *your statement makes no sense. everything there is limited in number and in the hundreds of millions of credits when it is available. not everyone has that kind of money lying around. and that still doesn't counter the fact that this setup does in fact favor those with money



4. that is circular logic



5. *how about you stop insulting people
1. *Thanks for answering my question , sorry you were feeling angry at the time but no I haven't read every post in the forums much of it is so negative and angry I just stop reading.*

2. Now a days companies being investigated for something is meaningless, if enough people complain someone will investigate. *That doesn't make the complaint justified.*

3. *What in life doesn't favor the wealthy?

*4. *In what way is this circular logic?

5. *If you read the fine print of my post you quoted you'll find that I edited this last sentenced because it was over stated. Meaning I was insulting people who didn't deserve it and if I insulted you, I apologize.*

I'll further modify that last sentence to read "Not everyone griping about lock boxes has a valid reason to do so, too many are just sore losers jumping on the band wagon so they can sound off"
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,062
# 26
09-27-2012, 12:31 AM
Lockbox ships never attracted me because:

1. I am not an addict ans suffer from "I-want-the-best-of-the-best" syndrome. Hence, I am quite happy with my Heghta BoP. I guess many players have problems to control the desire to buy/get the latest stuff for some reason

2. I am not a PvPer anyways. If I feel to kill someone then I take my Brel, and engage battlecloak for annoying torpedo attacks. Kerat is a perfect place for me to do PvP

3. I don't suffer from gambling addiction.

4. Again, I am more into flight sims so I'd spend my cash on games like DCS: A-10 and rather buy pedals, HOTAS etc

5. Real life hobbies and responsibilities.

6. Chances of scoring lock box ships very low. I'd rather work on collecting cash and buy those ships from exchange.
How to really behave in online forums with developers

Lieutenant
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 35
# 27 Lil' a This - Lil' a That
09-27-2012, 07:56 AM
I am an F2Per and I would just like to say that yes for some people the lockbox idea will satisfy their urge to burn money and if this allows me to be able to play for free until such time as I decide to subscribe or not then that is fantastic.

Logically it can be assumed that the idea for lockboxes and other paid perks was what laid the groundwork for the F2P launch in the first place. Cryptic can then use the F2P platform to bring in far more players than would normally be attracted by a pay-only game. As in advertising the more people you reach the more customers you get even if the overall percentage remains the same. five percent of five thousand new players is still bigger than five percent of five hundred. I just hope that if Cryptic is listening they heed my next words.

Get to work with all this new cash you guys are hauling in. I know from your recent "State of STO" news that you are bringing in new talent for development of the game but please keep in mind that while a brand new penny may be nice and shiny those old tarnished ones are worth the same thing. What I mean is you can keep adding new content all you want but if you were to ever become lacking in the upkeep of everything before it then what is the point. It is my recommendation that you use all the time you can spare to begin a systematic bug fix and general update project to remedy the numerous complaints that I have read not just here but in chat in-game too.

As far as any specific suggestions I may have concerning content and cost I would like to simply add that in my opinion the way the system is set up right now seems to be working in that you guys are making more money, more money means a bigger, better game (if you manage it correctly), and all that adds up to more fun for everyone.

The biggest thing I would like to see though is for y'all to set up an actual currency exchange in-game that would be able to be used by players to convert all currency into all other currency. I believe this could solve a lot of the fussing because it would allow each individual to earn or buy what they want in any way they choose. You need ten million EC you can grind Dilithium and convert it. You have a pile of cash in Zen you can convert it into the Latnium you want. Their are already ways to do some of this but it can be tedious and it doesn't work for all currencies.

Perhaps if the programming will allow it you could even be able to choose the method of payment on the exchange. Either way it all comes down to flexibility and isn't that one of the pillar principals at the heart of all Trek-dom?

Sorry if I was a bit long-winded.

Last edited by cptlankford; 09-30-2012 at 06:17 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,160
# 28
09-27-2012, 08:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cptlankford View Post
(Wall of text)
I would like to introduce you to this nifty new invention called "the paragraph", where by using something we call an "enter key" you can make "walls of text" legible. Give it a try!

(My eyes glazed over about 1/3rd in. I tried, I really did.)

"Don't let them promote you. Don't let them transfer you. Don't let them do anything that takes you off the bridge of that ship, because while you're there... you can make a difference." - James T. Kirk
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,333
# 29
09-27-2012, 11:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cptlankford View Post
I am an F2Per and I would just like to say that yes for some people the lockbox idea will satisfy their urge to burn money and if this allows me to be able to play for free until such time as I decide to subscribe or not then that is fantastic. Logically it can be assumed that the idea for lockboxes and other paid perks was what laid the groundwork for the F2P launch in the first place. Cryptic can then use the F2P platform to bring in far more players than would normally be attracted by a pay-only game. As in advertising the more people you reach the more customers you get even if the overall percentage remains the same. five percent of five thousand new players is still bigger than five percent of five hundred. I just hope that if Cryptic is listening they heed my next words. Get to work with all this new cash you guys are hauling in. I know from your recent "State of STO" news that you are bringing in new talent for development of the game but please keep in mind that while a brand new penny may be nice and shiny those old tarnished ones are worth the same thing. What I mean is you can keep adding new content all you want but if you were to ever become lacking in the upkeep of everything before it then what is the point. It is my recommendation that you use all the time you can spare to begin a systematic bug fix and general update project to remedy the numerous complaints that I have read not just here but in chat in-game too. As far as any specific suggestions I may have concerning content and cost I would like to simply add that in my opinion the way the system is set up right now seems to be working in that you guys are making more money, more money means a bigger better game (if you manage it correctly), and all that adds up to more fun for everyone. The biggest thing I would like to see though is for y'all to set up an actual currency exchange in-game that would be able to be used by players to convert all currency into all other currency. I believe this could solve a lot of the fussing because it would allow each individual to earn or buy what they want in any way they choose. You need ten million EC you can grind Dilithium and convert it. You have a pile of cash in Zen you can convert it into the Latnium you want. Their are already ways to do some of this but it can be tedious and it doesn't work for all currencies. Perhaps if the programming will allow it you could even be able to choose the method of payment on the exchange. Either way it all comes down to flexibility and isn't that one of the pillar principals at the heart of all Trek-dom?

Sorry if I was a bit long-winded.
It's not the "long-winded" that is a problem to read, it need to be broken up into paragraphs for ease of reading. I am not trying to insult you, but help you communicate and for us to read it to respond.

My dyslexia went into overdrive trying to read your post, so I am not really sure what you were saying.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,333
# 30
09-27-2012, 11:17 AM
My take on the lock-boxes.

When they first come out, I sell them for as much EC as I can get. Then wait for them to go away to get rid of the rest.

Despite Cryptic not posting odds (which some people are complaining about), we all know that the odds are slim on getting what you want, so I don't buy the keys to use the boxes.

The people complaining about the immorality or illegality of the "lock-box scam" also need to make a decision, if Cryptic is so "immoral" or "illegal", then why are you still playing the game, thus supporting the game? If it is such a violation of their sensibilities, then why lower yourself? Don't play.

Last edited by whamhammer1; 09-27-2012 at 11:20 AM.
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