Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 432
# 1 Creative Reality
12-14-2012, 01:34 PM
Would things be better around here if we just decided to believe that things were better around here? I ask because it seems that a few folks have decide that you can create your own reality, existing definitions and precedent be damned. I couldn't believe, still can't really, the way they tried to redefine an "exploit". Now there seems to be confusion over what constitutes a "buff"? Maybe I'm wrong so I'll open it up for discussion here.

My understanding is that a buff enhances the default or base of something. Consoles like RCS, Field Gens, and Disruptor Coils buff your turn rate, shield capacity and disruptor damage.

The Omega and MACO shield procs buff your turn rates and power levels. Are those buffs or procs? Aren't they actually both?

People go out of their way to rationalize that what they do is fine but what you do is wrong. I'm no exception. I do however try to keep up with the basics in an attempt to be relatively well informed for future, desperately needed, balance discussions.

In video games, what you call something does matter. If we can't understand basic definitions what qualifies anyone to make a statement on anything? How can we have a discussion if we don't even know what we are talking about?
__________________________________________
Foundry: Yet Another Borg Mission
It's terrible but easy, and these Borg are way cooler than the mess STO and Voyager left us.
May not actually be "way" cooler or even "slightly" cooler.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,465
# 2
12-14-2012, 01:52 PM
Yeah it's bad, but w/this game it's been that way awhile it's just the degree of impact has increased. Sad part is Cryptic has control of a D&D MMO. You'd think people woulda learned after the STO mess.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 945
# 3
12-14-2012, 02:13 PM
My understanding is that a buff is something that amplifies an existing stat/skill. A proc is something that is triggered based on a certain percentage chance. So a proc can trigger a buff, or it can trigger something else, like the phaser procs taking down a shield facing. A buff can be a constant boost or a time-based boost. All procs should be time-based since they are randomly activated through a percentage chance.
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@DevolvedOne
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,071
# 4
12-14-2012, 03:33 PM
there was that "counter play" thread a bit ago.

until something like that evolves, i see this as a slippery slope.

then again, life is what you make of it, and i think that applies here too.

have fun kill bad guys
Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 663
# 5
12-14-2012, 04:01 PM
What, are we going to resort to some placebo effect and pretend nothing happend?
Co-founder of The Spanish Inquisition TSI - Cause no one expects it!

PaxOttomana: gawd mirror event is like fighting a tsi premade, they keep comin and comin!
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 945
# 6
12-14-2012, 04:07 PM
Wait. I'm confused. What is this thread about?
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@DevolvedOne
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,639
# 7
12-14-2012, 04:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevehale View Post
In video games, what you call something does matter. If we can't understand basic definitions what qualifies anyone to make a statement on anything? How can we have a discussion if we don't even know what we are talking about?
I would often get accused of trolling for bringing up this particular point over on another forum. I would get accused of arguing about words - but I honestly believe that if folks do not agree on the words, how can they have any sort of discussion?

It's one of the reasons that contracts and other legal things will often have a section for definitions so that both parties (all parties) involved will know just what they're agreeing to...

If X is Y to me, but it is Z to somebody else - we can't really discuss X until we reach some form of agreement based on Y and Z as to what X is... otherwise, we could easily be saying the same thing but using different terms and thus appear to be arguing with each other. By the same token, we could be saying completely different things but think we're agreeing because of the terms we're using.

Was in a recent discussion on the forums here where it was obvious that the person was coming from POV A - and POV A is all that mattered to them. It was not a case that I was coming from POV B and we were arguing, but rather it was a case that I could see POV A - but POV A didn't matter because things had to be viewed from POV C... Cryptic's.

A simple discussion on turn rate in regard to the Chel Grett. STOwiki called it a Battle Cruiser. Cryptic calls it a Warship. A Battle Cruiser shouldn't have the TR that the Chel does. There's no argument that "warship" is a very generic term - however, in the manner that Cryptic used the term Warship - they were not using it in that generic sense. It's not a generic description of the Chel as a "warship" - but rather it's the introduction of a new type of ship - the "Warship"... somewhere between a Battle Cruiser and a Heavy Destroyer. A Battle Cruiser is a warship. A Heavy Destroyer is a warship. However, neither the Battle Cruiser nor the Heavy Destroyer are a Warship. Being unable to get that across made the discussion pointless. POV A (Chel's a Battle Cruiser cause STOwiki said so) vs. POV C (Chel's a Warship cause Cryptic said so).

That's just a simple thing of what kind of ship a particular ship is... imagine stepping back and looking at all the various things there are to discuss about STO, eh?

We see it in the PvE vs. PvP subthreads/discussions that pop up. We see it in discussing "cheese" and "not-cheese" - we see it in discussions about exploits vs. enjoy it until it's fixed. We see it from weapons to consoles to you name it... what's content - what's not - etc, etc, etc, etc, etc...

So a lot of time - people spend time talking AT each other rather than WITH each other about things...

...yeah, I'm a big proponent of defining terms for discussions and if there's any doubt about how somebody's using it - ask them. Even if it's not something you agree with, by making that effort - you can at least present your side in a way that they can better understand while better understanding their side... who knows, you may not even be disagreeing...

...oh well. /end rant /end babble /end podium
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder - R'ebel, Romulan, Haakona
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba - Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethean, M.Qin
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,593
# 8
12-14-2012, 04:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by skurf View Post
Wait. I'm confused. What is this thread about?
Does not compute
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,416
# 9
12-14-2012, 09:14 PM
Pugmade, pug, premade.

Those are 3 distinct team types and often the pugmade gets confused for a premade.

I got into an argument about it the other day on the organizedpvp chat channel -____-

I believe there is a distinct difference in all 3 types of teams.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mancom View Post
Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
Science pvp at its best-http://www.youtube.com/user/matteo716
Do you even Science Bro?
Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 663
# 10
12-14-2012, 11:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maicake716 View Post
Pugmade, pug, premade.

Those are 3 distinct team types and often the pugmade gets confused for a premade.

I got into an argument about it the other day on the organizedpvp chat channel -____-

I believe there is a distinct difference in all 3 types of teams.
Yeeeeees i remember that! Some klinks were horrified by the fact we decided to, wait for it, wait for it, TEAM up, and insisted we que solo.

Co-founder of The Spanish Inquisition TSI - Cause no one expects it!

PaxOttomana: gawd mirror event is like fighting a tsi premade, they keep comin and comin!
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