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Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 273
# 121
09-24-2012, 07:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hurleybird View Post
Ok guys, I figured it out. Cryptic just applied the wrong portion of the SNB power to the doff proc.

Get rid of the buff striping effect entirely, and replace it with the less powerful increase cooldown effect. Maybe up the proc rate a tad.

The doff would still have a place in PvP, mainly to eat up the enemy team's ST pool and make them more vulnerable to real SNBs and debuffs.

It would still be pretty worhtless in PvE, but at least you would be able to see the debuff on the enemy which could make it feel more useful. As it stands, the current iteration is probably going to go entirely unnoticed vs. NPCs.

I could live with this. It's still an odious DOff, but, thi is fairly reasonable and still quite powerful in the long-term, as opposed to being the current "Surprise Proc on Alpha Strike You're Dead, GG" effect they have at the moment.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 438
# 122
09-24-2012, 07:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hurleybird View Post
Option one sounds like the best bet, but that's more because option two is flawed.

Flaws in option two:
  1. If you limit the proc via an immunity on the affected target, people will just switch targets. Or, if they have a regular SNB lined up will just use that once the target buffs up again. Not very many targets can survive having their buffs stripped twice. The ability is still nearly as powerful.
  2. If it's implemented as a global limit, then you've introduced a convoluted and difficult to grasp rule to the game where you didn't need to. Convoluted rules are more likely to break somewhere down the line, and more likely to be miscategorized (for example, as a math bug) by future devs after you leave in disgust as all competent developers at cryptic eventually do.
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 574
# 123
09-24-2012, 08:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hurleybird View Post
Ok guys, I figured it out. Cryptic just applied the wrong portion of the SNB power to the doff proc.

Get rid of the buff striping effect entirely, and replace it with the less powerful increase cooldown effect. Maybe up the proc rate a tad.

The doff would still have a place in PvP, mainly to eat up the enemy team's ST pool and make them more vulnerable to real SNBs and debuffs.

It would still be pretty worhtless in PvE, but at least you would be able to see the debuff on the enemy which could make it feel more useful. As it stands, the current iteration is probably going to go entirely unnoticed vs. NPCs.
In fact that's a GREAT idea, I really like it. Even few sec more to cool down or global cooldown for a tac team or eps would be important. And also the doffs would actually still mean something.
Hear! Sons of Kahless
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 574
# 124
09-24-2012, 08:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
pretty much, trashing them and giving everyone that has one an icon that looks like a middle finger would be a perfectly acceptable solution to this. this doff ONLY effects pvp, there is 0 use for this in pve, so go ahead and flush them, our combined 'rage' would be a whisper compared to doing the same thing to something that would effects pve.

overall we would thank you for doing it. those that have them would just have to use more 'legitimate' tactics to win, like siphon spam, tractor spam, chrono spam, tric mine spam, and ams spam
Lol, we got to the point to think that all this junk (tractor spam, ams, siphons ...) are actually not that bad compared to those doffs... Kind of funny. But I like the icon w middle finger up idea, lol, Borticus, please implement it.
Hear! Sons of Kahless
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
Ensign
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 18
# 125
09-24-2012, 08:32 PM
I thought this doff only removed one buff, not all of them. Having a doff that removes all buffs seems rather overboard in terms of effect, when even losing one key buff can be the difference between survival and destruction.

It seems to me that changing the proc rate doesn't help to balance this, because no matter often or rarely it procs, its effect is overly strong. Making the proc happen less often only makes it more of a lottery. I'm sure at some point it could be made unreliable enough to be considered useless, but I doubt it could be made just unreliable enough to be considered fair. On the other hand, it would be nice if it procced often enough that it could be seen doing something.

Therefore, instead of changing the chance of a proc, I think the scope of the proc should be reduced, preferably to removing just one buff -- see how that feels, compared to the current effect.

The other change I would advocate is having the proc grant a immunity to further procs from the doff from all sources for perhaps 20 to 30 seconds. This means that 5 ships on the same team all equipped with these doffs shooting at the same target are less likely to scale overly well.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,021
# 126
09-24-2012, 08:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hurleybird View Post
Ok guys, I figured it out. Cryptic just applied the wrong portion of the SNB power to the doff proc.

Get rid of the buff striping effect entirely, and replace it with the less powerful increase cooldown effect. Maybe up the proc rate a tad.

The doff would still have a place in PvP, mainly to eat up the enemy team's ST pool and make them more vulnerable to real SNBs and debuffs.

It would still be pretty worhtless in PvE, but at least you would be able to see the debuff on the enemy which could make it feel more useful. As it stands, the current iteration is probably going to go entirely unnoticed vs. NPCs.
That sounds reasonable.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 223
# 127
09-24-2012, 08:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by diogene0 View Post
I'm sick of reading people crying for nerfs as soon as something new is working except their old build they're too lazy to change.

PvP isn't "dead". The way you played it might be but it's not dead, you just need to adapt. I don't even see why it's an issue, removing my buffs had never been an issue for me. There's no CD increase. It's just about BUFFS. Most of you get confused by the wrong "SNB doff" name, but it has nothing to do with an SNB. SNB is a debuff, this doff isn't.

No buff is mandatory to play pvp. Get your heads out of the clouds, pvp is still working well and this doff won't kill it.
+1 to this. Alot of the nerfing in this game is because now someone isn't "All powerful" like they should be and now someone can beat them or their pre-made... Thats a whole another story there that I even don't care to get in on at this time. It would probably cause me to get permbanned...

Me and one other guy were using these all day today in the public queues and we didn't notice A SINGLE game changing effect that those who posted before me are claiming. I think it boils down to it now gives a chance to some of the less experienced PvP'ers out there and actually makes it fun for them now where as it wasn't before...

Leave the doffs as is. THEY ARE FINE. Stop whining and go upstairs once in a while and see the light...

What SHOULD be looked at is the way Tetryon Glide (being fully spec'd in it) does when 2+ ships are running it or Anti-Matter spread spam and lastly Hold Spam... Those are WAY more out of whack than these doffs are and should get top priority...

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Joined: Oct/2008
Original Handle: the_orig_jean_luc_picard

Last edited by blznfun; 09-24-2012 at 08:59 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 797
# 128
09-24-2012, 09:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blznfun View Post
+1 to this. Alot of the nerfing in this game is because now someone isn't "All powerful" like they should be and now someone can beat them or their pre-made... Thats a whole another story there that I even don't care to get in on at this time. It would probably cause me to get permbanned...

Me and one other guy were using these all day today in the public queues and we didn't notice A SINGLE game changing effect that those who posted before me are claiming. I think it boils down to it now gives a chance to some of the less experienced PvP'ers out there and actually makes it fun for them now where as it wasn't before...

Leave the doffs as is. THEY ARE FINE. Stop whining and go upstairs once in a while and see the light...

What SHOULD be looked at is the way Tetryon Glide (being fully spec'd in it) does when 2+ ships are running it or Anti-Matter spread spam and lastly Hold Spam... Those are WAY more out of whack than these doffs are and should get top priority...
this game is not fine. maybe you should actually read all the concerns before you say all we want to do is nerf things.

there are obviously overpowered powers in this game, if you can't see that then I feel sorry that you cant.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 223
# 129
09-24-2012, 09:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by matteo716maikai View Post
this game is not fine. maybe you should actually read all the concerns before you say all we want to do is nerf things.

there are obviously overpowered powers in this game, if you can't see that then I feel sorry that you cant.
Its you I feel sorry for... I SEE the what's overpowered every time I enter a public queue. SNB Doffs are one that aren't... But to be spammed with holds, lock downs, placates and such 1 second after you free yourself IS overpowered where no such immunity is present such as running two APO doesn't even help is just ridiculous. The same goes for Tetryon Glider, Shield drains etc as well...

Like you said to me, if you actually read what I wrote, you would see that I agree things need to be looked at, but the SNB Doffs are not one of them..

=/\= 106th Fleet =/\=
Website | Fleet Charter | Mission Statement | Forums | Join | F.A.Q.
Joined: Oct/2008
Original Handle: the_orig_jean_luc_picard

Last edited by blznfun; 09-24-2012 at 09:18 PM.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 51
# 130
09-24-2012, 09:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blznfun View Post
+1 to this. Alot of the nerfing in this game is because now someone isn't "All powerful" like they should be and now someone can beat them or their pre-made... Thats a whole another story there that I even don't care to get in on at this time. It would probably cause me to get permbanned...

Me and one other guy were using these all day today in the public queues and we didn't notice A SINGLE game changing effect that those who posted before me are claiming. I think it boils down to it now gives a chance to some of the less experienced PvP'ers out there and actually makes it fun for them now where as it wasn't before...

Leave the doffs as is. THEY ARE FINE. Stop whining and go upstairs once in a while and see the light...

What SHOULD be looked at is the way Tetryon Glide (being fully spec'd in it) does when 2+ ships are running it or Anti-Matter spread spam and lastly Hold Spam... Those are WAY more out of whack than these doffs are and should get top priority...

It sounds like you should be on the receiving end more often =). When youre in a match with multiple sci/eng healers on your team, and still cant keep up with heals on a team mate because they're being stripped so often, ONLY then, you'll see how effective they actually are.

Most of the heals in this game give some kind of resist. aux to sif, epts, haz, tss, you name it. When all if these can be stripped multiple times within a few seconds, even when resists are reapplied, the healers eventually run out of heals trying to save the person.
-- When you're on a team and being focused by 2 escorts and a team running these, you use rotate shields, tac team, aux to sif then get stripped. then you take heavy damage. receive a tac team and heals from team mates if needed, then stripped again, clutch rsp to stay alive, then instantly stripped again and finally die. All of this happening within 10-20 seconds.

Some of the best cross healing coordinated teams can be ripped apart by less coordinated/skilled/experienced teams. And the wealthier pvp fleets who run them crush anyone without even giving them a chance. either way, its unfair.

So i would have to say i support the decision of 1-3 random abilities stripped, the less, the better. Even stripping 1-2 of these still makes them very effective without toning down the proc chance. but still gives the team a chance to keep a team mate alive in a match.


@Minitrckin08 from Turkish RP Heros
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