Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,553
# 261
10-08-2012, 12:29 PM
I hate to say it, but P2W is P2W. You get a cruiser that has a high enough boost to weapons power and they aren't as despicably weak. The only thing is before now I was using the free AC, and as much as I love my sovy, sorry to say that the Oddy beats her out badly with sheer damage output and intake ability. I am now sorely tempted to try the regent just to see what I can do with a little more maneuverability, but that would involve getting me out of my Oddy, which I think I am now glued into lol...
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Tired of Wasting EC and Time trying to get Superior Romulan Operative BOffs? Here's a cheap and easy way to get them, with an almost 100% chance of success.
Why the Devs can't make PvE content harder.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 144
# 262
10-08-2012, 12:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by flekh View Post
That's where you're totally wrong.
Cruisers don't have any problem with drain, they can reach extremely high power levels. This is what's currently possible:
+10 Weapon Performance (technically: 9.9)
+5 Warp Core Efficiency (technicaly: 4.95)
+5 Assimilated Console
+10 M.A.C.O. Shield
+10 Tac Ody
+10 Saucer Seperation
+25 EPtW3
That already puts you at 175 Weapon Power!
Six-beam-broadsides at maximum power!
Eight-beams still at 105 power!
No Escort can even get close.
Any escort can get the same equipment, except for EPTW3,but use EPTW1 instead, and saucer sep, which cannot be counted in, because e.g. not available for KDF. The difference therefore is only +10 in the energy levels between escort and cruiser.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 232
# 263
10-08-2012, 03:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xiphenon View Post
Any escort can get the same equipment, except for EPTW3,but use EPTW1 instead, and saucer sep, which cannot be counted in, because e.g. not available for KDF. The difference therefore is only +10 in the energy levels between escort and cruiser.
This one makes me laugh.
Saucer Sep does not count an an argument ... in a discussion about Federation Cruisers ... in the Federation forum ... because ... KDF ships don't even have a saucer??????????


Does that just not make sense because my grandma had a wiener dog?

... or, more likely, because it's totally unrelated to the discussion?


Also: which Escort can run 2xEPtS and 2xEPtW please?
Or are you running EPtW instead of EPtS? Well, have fun with your glass-cannon build, but make sure your inventory is filled to the brim with repair components.


Or did you actually try to complain about KDF cruisers? I mean, is there anything you can even try that can't be countered by: "Fleet Tor'Kaht!"?
(... or for that matter, even the Fleet Corsair, which is just as insane on the other side of the tank <-> dps scale, as close to indestructible as you can get.)


____________

On totally unreleated note ... ah, whom am I kidding: As were're already at KDF: G'hargh, have you been eating those cookies you found on that starbase? I mean, the green'ish ones that smelled funny?

Your whole idea does two things:
It blurrs the difference between Cannons and Beams so far that you could just get rid of one or the other - they'd be the same. Well, at least once you'd "balance" them a bit more, at current all the beams have twice the angle of cannons but at same damage output, that's ... a bit broken.

Also, you'd accelerate the power creep that's already a problem - you're trying to introduce what amounts to about a 15% increase in dps for ... well, everything except broadside cruisers (... that alone should tell you that the idea is ... sub-optimal).
Yes, the usual rainbow-mix-weapon-fail-boats will get another 100dps or so ... but the optimized ships of any type could break 10k - and go about one-shotting each other in PvP ... or probably not. One-shotting and getting one-shot is only fun for so long.


... Or did you actually accept cookies form levi3?
That'd make sense: You're just trolling the feds in retalition. "Good Intentions" with horrible consequences ... yeah, that'd be levi3-style.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,757
# 264
10-08-2012, 04:42 PM
And here I thought I was helping in comparison to the ideas of uber fed cruiser only beam arrays or that cruisers need a special buff or what ever abomination of I want to kill stuff fast in my cruiser idea has poped up in here.
Silly me.
Roy Hatch (stryker) soldier, friend, and good man.
1945-2014
RIP
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 216
# 265
10-08-2012, 05:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by flekh View Post
1. Before someone accuses me of advertising for the Ody, or for promoting Pay-to-Win ... I don't. I'm pointing it out!
If you try to make a Star Cruiser deal Escort-dps, you turn P2W ships into broken abominations that one-shot everything around them. And they certainly do exist, you can't just pretend they don't.
Which means you have to balance around them.
If you want to get rid of P2W, which is actually something I'd support: make a different thread for that, but you better be prepared and come with a good idea how Cryptic/PWE can make money instead. Many tried before, and they all failed.
I think that doing the above would force Crytpic to address all issues raised by Engineers, Science and Tactical Captains. Cruiser, Escorts and Science Vessels.

And they can do it very easily without screwing over their customer base and leaving players with a bad taste in their mouth.

1. Drop the lock box crap.
2. Drop the P2W ships and consoles.

3. Replace the lock box option with a lower chance to drop, a chance for keys to drop, make the current content available as regular ship options. Place random Duty and Bridge Officers that are balanced with currently available, rare chance for ship costumes to be inside. Keys can still be bought on the c-Store.
4. Replace the P2W ships and consoles with ship "costumes" and additional ship and player customization while making the former P2W ships a part of the regular game.

Those are just a few things that can be done and they will continue to make money and I haven't even touched the leveling system, expansions/large new content bundles, dilithium or the Ferengi stuff.

Last edited by veraticus; 10-08-2012 at 05:28 PM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 232
# 266
10-08-2012, 05:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemepwe View Post
And here I thought I was helping in comparison to the ideas of uber fed cruiser only beam arrays or that cruisers need a special buff or what ever abomination of I want to kill stuff fast in my cruiser idea has poped up in here.
Silly me.
...
...
...
True.
You were.

Ummm ... thanks?

...
...
...

Crap, you really got me there for a time.
If you hear a loud noise outside, that's probably just me attempting a quadra-facepalm for not getting it earlier.

Oh, ... and stay away from Orion for a while, my Fed Sci has a sense of humour, and actually apreciates what you've done - my KDF Sci though is a bit more on the vengeful side, with money to burn and good Syndicate connections.


Quote:
Originally Posted by veraticus View Post
I think that doing the above would force Crytpic to address all issues raised by Engineers, Science and Tactical Captains. Cruiser, Escorts and Science Vessels.

And they can do it very easily without screwing over their customer base and leaving players with a bad taste in their mouth.

1. Drop the lock box crap.
2. Drop the P2W ships and consoles.

3. Replace the lock box option with a lower chance to drop, a chance for keys to drop, make the current content available as regular ship options. Place random Duty and Bridge Officers that are balanced with currently available, rare chance for ship costumes to be inside. Keys can still be bought on the c-Store.
4. Replace the P2W ships and consoles with ship "costumes" and additional ship and player customization while making the former P2W ships a part of the regular game.

Those are just a few things that can be done and they will continue to make money and I haven't even touched the leveling system, expansions/large new content bundles, dilithium or the Ferengi stuff.
Okay ... so, you, too ...

Hint: the devs won't fall for it. I'm pretty sure they can so SOME basic math, and watch logs.
But: the community can fail for it.
You're making people believe that Cruisers are weak, that Cryptic is doing nothing ... you're sowing dissent. Do you really think this helps the game in any way?

Last edited by flekh; 10-08-2012 at 05:32 PM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 216
# 267
10-08-2012, 07:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by flekh View Post
Okay ... so, you, too ...

Hint: the devs won't fall for it. I'm pretty sure they can so SOME basic math, and watch logs.
But: the community can fail for it.
You're making people believe that Cruisers are weak, that Cryptic is doing nothing ... you're sowing dissent. Do you really think this helps the game in any way?
No I'm not.

On the Federation side of things cruisers are indeed weak.
The base model ships continue to grow weaker as new pay to win ships are released.

Klingons have their own mess of issues that I cannot address because I do not play as a Klingon. So I will leave that up to those who know and are more capable of expressing it in a more eloquent way

You're right cryptic is not doing nothing. But neither are they doing enough to make this game progress. Right now it progresses just enough to continue to stand still. Looking for all intent and purposes, as a newly released MMO.

The game continues to be plagued by bugs, balance issues continue to exist between ships, powers, abilities, captain choices, and between the factions.

PVP continues to bomb, and still, after 2+ years has yet to gain any traction due to a variety of things that have been known since prior to launch and have yet to be addressed in any meaningful way.

Ground combat remains one of the weaker selling points of this game.

While the customization options provided to us for the creation of our primary characters is phenomenal, the options provide to us for the customization of our ships is fairly bland. Even after 2+ years. As an example how many years did it take before we were given three interior decks to our ships? Three decks made up of pre-fab scenery with very few unique visuals.

Leveling in this game continues to be done far too quickly.
I know that some say that this is to cater to those who cannot spend hours at a time or hours each day playing this game. While perhaps true, this does not excuse the fact that a new player to the game can level a character from zero to Max in under two weeks of casual gameplay. Leveling in this manner trivializes so much of the content as it is right now in the game, and the ships that are used prior to max level.

The exploration missions, those ones off in what ever expanse, remain poorly constructed, light on content, heavy on suspended logic, and a far cry from what the game engine is possible of doing.

The roles of three supposedly distinct classes of ships are borderline nonexistent.
As the pursuit of DPS and peak damage potential continues to proven time and time again as the best way to complete anything in this game the distinction between these classes has fluctuated and finally fallen flat.

There is no need for a tank in this game, just as there is no need for science vessel or the science abilities that they bring. Any STF or so-called endgame content can be done with just five escorts. The more DPS you bring the fast you clear the content. Seeing as the optional is on a timer you could argue the DPS is the emphasis behind a timer.
While these can be done with groups of science vessels or groups of cruisers is seen as sub optimal. Even to the point where other players will leave a group if they feel there are too many of one or the other and not enough escorts.

And now I hear that they plan on releasing the Romulans as a new faction for this game. Seeing as they have yet to even finish fleshing out the first two factions, what make you think that they will do it with the third?

Do you really think that adding a new faction will balance PVP?
Will bring a need for tanks or science vessels?
That it will somehow change the current design of STFs and endgame content?

I don't know if it is the developers, the marketing team, cryptic, PWE, CBS or Paramount. (Or whomever else you want to include)
But they do not have a vision for the future of this game, no end results.
Cash is King and the foolish pay.

Right now on my computer the game size is 6.67 gigabytes.
Compare that to Guild wars 2 at 14.2 gigabytes at release.
Compare that to another PWE title Forsaken World released mid-2011 on my computer right now is 6.43 gigabytes, and I haven't touched it since the start of this year. So who knows what size it is now.

Content is severely lacking for a game that is 2+ years old. The lack of customer service is telling, just as is the lack of in game service on the technical side of things. Why should bugs that existed at launch still be around after two years?

Until we stop playing their money game this game will never progress.
This is the underlying and the core issue of all symptoms in this game.
It is the reason for the sickness if you will.
So when ever there is a complaint, preferably a legitimate one, as we have seen Re: PVP, PVE, STFs, ship balance, faction balance/imbalance, lack of content for certain factions, the reason is the cash game that we continue to play and do nothing to change.

Last edited by veraticus; 10-08-2012 at 07:36 PM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 144
# 268
10-08-2012, 09:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by flekh View Post
This one makes me laugh.
Saucer Sep does not count an an argument ... in a discussion about Federation Cruisers ... in the Federation forum ... because ... KDF ships don't even have a saucer??????????
I had the impression it should be a general comparsion between Cruisers and Escorts. If you state, that anyone not flying the ody is not optimized, I would suggest to take the bug ship as opponent, because it is the most strongest escort in game.

Quote:
Also: which Escort can run 2xEPtS and 2xEPtW please?
Or are you running EPtW instead of EPtS? Well, have fun with your glass-cannon build, but make sure your inventory is filled to the brim with repair components.
You have heard of DOFs, right? On my Fleet vorcha I run only one copy of EPTS3 and EPTW1, powered by 3 blue DOFs reducing the cooldown to 15 sec of each ability. I don't see any reason, why an escort cannot do this with EPTS2 and EPTW1. Escpacially the Bug ship can put EPTW1 in his Ens Eng and run another Lt. Eng with EPTS1 and RSP.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,764
# 269
10-08-2012, 10:05 PM
I hate to be seen as tooting my horn, but I think my little suggestion might help even up the DPS disparity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lt. Comm. Pion
What should I wish upon the endless universe;
To be able to smile and forgive everything;
That's right, if we light up the dream in our hearts without averting our eyes;
We should be able to walk whatever tomorrow comes...

I am V. Adm. Kha Yuung, and I approve of this message.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 597
# 270
10-12-2012, 08:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hereticknight085 View Post
I hate to say it, but P2W is P2W. You get a cruiser that has a high enough boost to weapons power and they aren't as despicably weak. The only thing is before now I was using the free AC, and as much as I love my sovy, sorry to say that the Oddy beats her out badly with sheer damage output and intake ability. I am now sorely tempted to try the regent just to see what I can do with a little more maneuverability, but that would involve getting me out of my Oddy, which I think I am now glued into lol...
Thats only the Odyssey. Thats only one ship and can't be representation of all the other cruisers when they don't get these natural boost.
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