Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,996
# 31
09-28-2012, 11:10 AM
Call me a noob, call me an idiot, call me what you will for what I am about to say.

I play a cruiser because I don't like being up close and personal in a fight, I like to have time to think about what I am going to do in any given situation, however I expect to be capable of doing damage. As far as I am concerned the defensive balance (of Escorts vs Cruisers) is fine I get more defence paying with speed and turn rate but it should cost me my damage potential.

I listen to you all saying "Cruisers are Tanks, they are meant to take damage" the extension of this is that they should be incapable of dealing damage. The thing is I am a casual player (I run an Excel -R but it's hardly P2W, no special damage boosting consoles, no special combat boosts) and I don't want to get the perfect cruiser build for the game; I want the perfect cruiser build for me which it happens I have. I can hold off almost anything in the game but that's only HALF the fight; I need to be able to HURT my target at the same time!

Tanking is only half the job and frankly I shouldn't be forced to go and get an escort because I came up against an enemy ship on my travels, I don't mind my team contribution being that I heal others (while I strip enemy shields for them) while I'm out-gunned by an escort and science ships are better at playing with the targets, but that shouldn't stop me flying a general purpose ship (covering ALL the roles) whole obviously I'm better at tanking.

1 last point: Those of you who say that cruisers should have control capability. As the NPCs attack the most damaging ships I thus can't pull aggro off the escorts because they do so much more damage than I can ever dream of. My escort does stupid amounts of damage, if a cruiser doesn't have full (all 9 points) threat control it doesn't have a hope of taking it off me and my poor science is hopeless also. this is mainly due to the huge gulf between the end damage of DHCs vs Beam arrays.

As per my opening statement "Call me what you will"
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 91
# 32
09-28-2012, 11:19 AM
If I can put my 2 ECs in here for a second. I wanted to post last night when I read this thread, however it was very late and I was in bed when I was formulating a post.

And I'm at work now so I couldn't read through each post on my phone so I apologize ahead of time if this was already stated.

While I agree with most of what I read and see that cruisers are not as intimidating as they are in canon, I do feel that a rebalance of ships isn't really necessary.

What does need to be balanced in my opinion is content. There is a high demand for doing thing quickly, especially at end-game and the fact of the matter is, tacs in escorts do it fastest. There should be a bigger emphasis on team work and team balance within the content. Sure things should be soloable too, however I think science vessel captains and cruiser captains would get more satisfaction if the true power of their ships was more of a necessity.

I also think that for there to be true tanking in this game, which I think cruisers were intended for, there needs to be a better system for threat generation. Maybe like one of the posters mentioned about a heavy beam, that could have an increased threat generation on it as well for example so the cruiser can pull aggro off of a squishy escort.

If you notice in other MMOs, tanks always do less damage than dps classes because their job is to survive. But they also should be able to hold aggro and take heat off the other classes while whittling down the targets. I'm almost always playing a tank in every other MMO, infact when I created my STO toon at launch, I created him with the thought that he could be a tank, which of course I was mostly wrong (tactical).

I go through phases of using different ships depending on my mood. But I do love being in a huge cruiser and absorbing all the damage. I get satisfaction out of that even knowing im not doing the dps I could be doing in an escort.

It also depends on the captain, and what they want out of their ship. I've flown glass cannons, escort evasive tanks, cruiser absorb tanks, cruiser heal boats, cruiser dps, sci control ships, and sci heal boats. Of course some ships and captain class are more effective at certain things, but that does not mean any captain can tailor any ship to do what they want by changing weapon load out, boffs, console set up, etc.

I'm a dork with 15 end-game toons, and literally every ship in the game, including c-store and lock box ships. I just dont have all the Fleet versions... yet. I've flown all efficient builds to experimental good and bad. My main tac has 24 RA-VA ships alone. I love theory crafting and talking "shop" about ship building so I apologize if I went a little long in this post.
Commanding Officer of Task Force Midnight
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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 176
# 33
09-28-2012, 11:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adamkafei View Post
Call me a noob, call me an idiot, call me what you will for what I am about to say.


As per my opening statement "Call me what you will"


Fine, I'll call you what I will....."honest."

You've said nothing that most of us haven't thought before and even more of us have heard several times. (edit: this isn't meant to be rude, sorry if it sounds that way)While I personally have no problem with each ship type succeeding at it's role better than the rest and being at a disadvantage outside of that role, the current extremes that design has been taken too for cruisers is ridiculous.

Cruisers aren't as damaging as escorts are tough. See the previous stories for examples.

Also sci ships are not nearly as good at crowd control as escorts are DPS, it requires a little planning to even get sci control powers with maxed out skills to work in PVP or STFs. Gravity well holds nothing on its own, energy drain is highly resisted, scramble sensors doesn't work for long on AI's and can cause a miserable bug in PVP. The only control powers that are really reliable are tractor beams and tractor beam repulsors, both of which are resisted by skills and a few Boff powers in PVP.


Also novathelegend, it was interesting to read your thoughts on the subject and you may very well be right, that solution of yours is probably more work then we'll ever get out of the Dev's at this point.

Last edited by razellis; 09-28-2012 at 11:37 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,996
# 34
09-28-2012, 12:16 PM
quite frankly I fed up of being told I can only do 1 thing OR the other, it's the complete opposite of the cruisers purpose which is to be moderately good at dealing damage and doing science stuff but brilliant at taking damage so that they are out done by escorts for damage and by science in science matters while out doing both the other classes in damage taking without losing their entire ability fill the other 2 roles.

If everyone can solo something in a decent amount of time (doing fair damage) not only will players have a better capacity to handle stuff and as a result teams have a better capacity to handle things. This will in turn increase the sale of ships in the C-store and thus make more money. At this rate I'm just going to stop playing because playing a damage sponge isn't fun, ripping ships to spacedust in under 20 seconds is equally not fun and just being pretty much useful is... oh wait... not fun either
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,694
# 35
09-28-2012, 12:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by novathelegend View Post

I also think that for there to be true tanking in this game, which I think cruisers were intended for, there needs to be a better system for threat generation.
There IS. Its just that most cruiser pilots don't take the full 9 points (or indeed any) into threat generation. That added to a decent DPS output will mean a cruiser will comfortably hold agro. To test this I put my engi alt into a free Ody and just to give it a little flavor I made into a rainbow boat. My engi alt holds agro, survives and often out DPS's some of the escorts. People just need to L2P. That's not directed to anyone in particular, but rather to the mass of STO cruiser pilots that never really learn how to fly cruisers because the game's leveling process doesn't really teach anyone anything.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 295
# 36
09-28-2012, 01:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by skyranger1414 View Post
There IS. Its just that most cruiser pilots don't take the full 9 points (or indeed any) into threat generation. That added to a decent DPS output will mean a cruiser will comfortably hold agro. To test this I put my engi alt into a free Ody and just to give it a little flavor I made into a rainbow boat. My engi alt holds agro, survives and often out DPS's some of the escorts. People just need to L2P. That's not directed to anyone in particular, but rather to the mass of STO cruiser pilots that never really learn how to fly cruisers because the game's leveling process doesn't really teach anyone anything.
I fly an Oddy with 6 points in Threat Control, tried 9 found it didnt make much of a difference (confirmed by some of my fleet buddies) and went back to 6. Yes it helps obtain and hold aggro. But no, it's still not enough. I have a good set up with weapons and equipment and while there are times I can tank, in the true sense of that word, the 'bosses' in STFs if an escort decides to go all out and they usually do (and some also put in points for Threat Control which is a whole other post) there's nothing i can do to prevent me from losing aggro. Maybe escort pilots never really learn how to fly escorts because the game's leveling process doesn't really teach anyone anything.

Ok cheap shot. But what I'm saying is that I agree with some of the above posters, something more that the current Threat Control system is needed if that's the main methodology for cruisers tanking.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,694
# 37
09-28-2012, 01:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by trek21 View Post

Cruiser ships get an innate defensive bonus, no matter what their speed or engine power levels. In addition, possibly getting an innate damage bonus to ONLY beams and torpedoes (what they're best at). Their slow turn rates and inertia are what balance this.
What you really want is for cruisers to be uber. So why play anything else? In an effort to see if there's any truth to the "cruisers are weak" arguments, and my engi cruiser on a rainbow boat does just fine in its intended role of tanking/dps in STFs. So to anyone saying their cruisers are weak, all I can say is L2P.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,694
# 38
09-28-2012, 01:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonulinu2 View Post
Maybe escort pilots never really learn how to fly escorts because the game's leveling process doesn't really teach anyone anything.
No, even in easy facerolling PvE escorts are tinfoil until a player learns to fly them and build them.

Now your point of an Escort pilot investing into threat generation is valid, but then they're gimping some of their potential damage for the extra defenses it gives, which is similar to how my cruiser gives up some defense for extra DPS ability. Not to mention that as soon as it agroes more than one thing its going to be pressed to survive instead of comfortably DPSing.

All that said I do think cruisers could have a better turn radius, maybe a +1 or +2 would be enough to get over how sluggish they feel. My Engi Ody uses 2 RCS consoles if memory serves.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,996
# 39
09-28-2012, 01:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by skyranger1414 View Post
What you really want is for cruisers to be uber. So why play anything else? In an effort to see if there's any truth to the "cruisers are weak" arguments, and my engi cruiser on a rainbow boat does just fine in its intended role of tanking/dps in STFs. So to anyone saying their cruisers are weak, all I can say is L2P.
Ok... so maybe my cruiser is weak (as oppose to cruisers in general) however this is a recent development (season 6) as literally the day before season 6 the exact same build was doing fair damage still understandably out gunned by the escorts but I was dealing with stuff in a good time and the day after season 6 went live my ship did little damage (not at all noticeable) without a single change to my build.

As it stands an engineer flying a 6 beam cruiser can sit and broadside me and I only need 2 abilities to counter this: Rotate shield frequencies and tactical team, with these in place my shields (all 4) regen faster than they are being damaged...

I have said previously that I am a casual player and I don't care for finding the GAMES perfect cruiser build, I simply want the perfect cruiser build for ME (which I had going into season six) so tell me, should I still "L2P"?
Lieutenant
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 46
# 40
09-28-2012, 01:50 PM
Cruisers right now suck. Right now you can now tank and dps in any escort which you should not be able to do. That means both federation and klingon variants. Right now there is no point to play a cruiser.

This game will never be fixed, nothing will be balanced and nothing will change until the game goes to a decent company. Until then expect things to never change.

They made this game and slapped on the name Star Trek just to make money. The game should be called " Cash Leech Online ".
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