Lieutenant
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 46
# 521
10-16-2012, 10:15 AM
The best way to sum up a Cruiser is a knight in shining armor with a paper sword made by a pre-schooler. No threat. Cruisers right now need help and not the expected role to perform in both pvp and pve.

I've been hardcore modding games for over 17 years and I can tell you I could balance this game myself VERY easy by re-designing each and every single solitary mechanic to everything from the bottom up to where it's balanced but most importantly there is " heart " to it as well. This " heart " is what is lost in today's games. Re-hashed, re-used same crap, sell it for a quick buck. ANYTHING to make that dollar. These people at Cryptic have no clue at all about balance.

What happened to this game? I mean really take a moment to stop and think about it. WHAT happened to this game? It just seems gaming companies have lost so much spirit trying to design something " RIGHT " that it's lost art and the new way is to just milk people out of money now.

I'm hoping by 2020 gaming companies will be better like in the 1990's where games were GOOD, then they are now because since 2004 or some a bit after most games have been absolute crap due to the same problems.

Currently we are in a gaming recession where most games are crap and nothing but a VERY few shine. STO certainly is not one of them.

You can sugar coat crap all you want but it's still simply " crap "

Last edited by captainluke85; 10-16-2012 at 10:32 AM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,764
# 522
10-16-2012, 11:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yreodred View Post
This is the second time i am happy to completely agree with you.

I like your new FFE (?) BOFF ability, one question though, why not make it a Engineering BOFF power?
Since Cruisers have a high emphasis on Engineering BOFF slots, i think it would be suitable to make this a enginering power. On the other hand most cruisers tac slots are too low anyway, and it would be good for Engineering Captains so their skills would benefit this power instead of Tac skills.



I hope my english is understandable, since most of the time i am unable to find the right words in my native language already.
Since the idea of Fire for Effect is a Tactical ability, why can't it stay there? As a BOff ability from ensign to LTC it is still availible to Cruisers sooner than CRF is to escorts.

Another good idea was an ability (whose name and creator suddenly escapes me) that was basically a short Accuracy buff ability one could use to increase Acc.
This could be a Science or Engineering ability.

I wouldn't mind there being some more Science and Engineering BOff abilities being created to give both classes a slight DPS boost, though I am not sure what is needed.
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goodbye good friend. We will see you in the DMZ in the sky oneday, save a shot for us.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 232
# 523
10-16-2012, 05:11 PM
This is the current "Cruisers suck"-whine thread, right?
I'm getting a bit lost, too many of them ...

Anyway, 'had a very interesting experience in ISE, and I thought I'd share:

A Cruiser, piloted by an Engineer, and a Fed at that ... out-dps'ed everyone.
My Fed-Tac's Crap'scort (Mk Xi purple weapons, blue consoles, not even a Borg console yet) clocked in at 5.7k dps overall. Another Escort at 6k.
... and this Engineer-piloted Cruiser ... at 7k. Peak dps at 20k.
Yes, it was a P2W-ship, a Galor.
Yes, APB was used.
But this shows what's possible.

Do you guys still want a cruiser/eng buff?

P.S.: yes, I do have the log. Nice 8:26min ISE run
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 256
# 524
10-16-2012, 05:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by flekh View Post
This is the current "Cruisers suck"-whine thread, right?
I'm getting a bit lost, too many of them ...

Anyway, 'had a very interesting experience in ISE, and I thought I'd share:

A Cruiser, piloted by an Engineer, and a Fed at that ... out-dps'ed everyone.
My Fed-Tac's Crap'scort (Mk Xi purple weapons, blue consoles, not even a Borg console yet) clocked in at 5.7k dps overall. Another Escort at 6k.
... and this Engineer-piloted Cruiser ... at 7k. Peak dps at 20k.
Yes, it was a P2W-ship, a Galor.
Yes, APB was used.
But this shows what's possible.

Do you guys still want a cruiser/eng buff?

P.S.: yes, I do have the log. Nice 8:26min ISE run
I do want a buff... my floors need it. But, what weapons was he using in the Galor, Beams or Cannons (and if cannons, what type?).

Personally I am satisfied with my Cruisers. My Engineer flys a Cruiser, if I want to fly an Escort, I have my Tac. My DPS isn't bad, isn't great... but not bad.

In my D'Kora, I usually get 5500-6100 dps; in my Regent or Excelsior, I run from 5000-5500. In my Sovereign or Fleet Heavy Cruiser Retrofit 4500-5000.

I use dual Tac Team I, Torpdeo High Yield II, and Attack Pattern Beta II. Better DPS results for me that way.

I chain Emergency Power to Weapons, Emergency Power to Shields, and Direct Energy Modulation.

Doffs, I use three Conn Officers to reduce the recharge Attack Pattern Beta; it is up most of the time.
I don't PVP, so this works fine for me in PVE.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,553
# 525
10-16-2012, 05:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by flekh View Post
This is the current "Cruisers suck"-whine thread, right?
I'm getting a bit lost, too many of them ...

Anyway, 'had a very interesting experience in ISE, and I thought I'd share:

A Cruiser, piloted by an Engineer, and a Fed at that ... out-dps'ed everyone.
My Fed-Tac's Crap'scort (Mk Xi purple weapons, blue consoles, not even a Borg console yet) clocked in at 5.7k dps overall. Another Escort at 6k.
... and this Engineer-piloted Cruiser ... at 7k. Peak dps at 20k.
Yes, it was a P2W-ship, a Galor.
Yes, APB was used.
But this shows what's possible.

Do you guys still want a cruiser/eng buff?

P.S.: yes, I do have the log. Nice 8:26min ISE run
Just a thought. I have posted 3 or 4 times in this thread alone, and have posted up numbers on on how strong a cruiser can actually be. But I have been told my numbers are fake. I am sure if I actually bothered to get a DPS tracker, I could probably indeed show that Cruisers can hit very high dps if flown right. And not just galors, but other ships that gain high passive bonuses, like the one I fly, the tac oddy. I have never seen another engi cruiser hit numbers as high as my tac oddy can with saucer separation active.

Hence why I commented that they aren't broken, but their main purpose is not needed in the current meta of insanely high dps.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Tired of Wasting EC and Time trying to get Superior Romulan Operative BOffs? Here's a cheap and easy way to get them, with an almost 100% chance of success.
Why the Devs can't make PvE content harder.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,449
# 526
10-16-2012, 05:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adamkafei View Post
And those of us who don't fly P2W?
You could do the same with the sovvy class minus the Aquarius escort mod.
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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 232
# 527
10-16-2012, 07:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sohtoh View Post
I do want a buff... my floors need it. But, what weapons was he using in the Galor, Beams or Cannons (and if cannons, what type?).

Personally I am satisfied with my Cruisers. My Engineer flys a Cruiser, if I want to fly an Escort, I have my Tac. My DPS isn't bad, isn't great... but not bad.

In my D'Kora, I usually get 5500-6100 dps; in my Regent or Excelsior, I run from 5000-5500. In my Sovereign or Fleet Heavy Cruiser Retrofit 4500-5000.

I use dual Tac Team I, Torpdeo High Yield II, and Attack Pattern Beta II. Better DPS results for me that way.

I chain Emergency Power to Weapons, Emergency Power to Shields, and Direct Energy Modulation.

Doffs, I use three Conn Officers to reduce the recharge Attack Pattern Beta; it is up most of the time.
I don't PVP, so this works fine for me in PVE.
He was using 8xSpiral Wave Disruptor, and using a DEM build.
'Had the pleasure to fly another couple eSTF with him now, this time with his Tac/Bug - that one clocked in at pretty constant low 8k'ish, which is pretty damn good for an escort.

Cruisers scale with weapon power. Massively. Not only does it add more damage to the weapons you have, it also allows you to use more weapons effectively.
4.5k to 5k in a +5 baseline ship are already quite good.
Of course, a free T5 Escort won't get far beyond the 6k mark, either.
Tac Ody with Ops console can pretty much equal any Escort in dps.
The difference between low-end Cruisers and the high-end P2W ones is quite drastic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hereticknight085 View Post
Just a thought. I have posted 3 or 4 times in this thread alone, and have posted up numbers on on how strong a cruiser can actually be. But I have been told my numbers are fake. I am sure if I actually bothered to get a DPS tracker, I could probably indeed show that Cruisers can hit very high dps if flown right. And not just galors, but other ships that gain high passive bonuses, like the one I fly, the tac oddy. I have never seen another engi cruiser hit numbers as high as my tac oddy can with saucer separation active.

Hence why I commented that they aren't broken, but their main purpose is not needed in the current meta of insanely high dps.
Well, yes, it's always easier to complain or to cry "fake!" than it is to admit failure. Unfortunately, this also prevents people from actually learning, and thus ... well, I guess this won't be the last of the "Cruisers suck"-threads.
I mean, the attitude is even deeply rooted in the PvP community, and these guys should normally know better what their ships can do. Should.

But Cryptic really needs find a way to stop or at least slow the power creep, and find a way to close the gap between the good players and the bad, and to actually cut down on the effects of P2W, or it's getting impossible to balance any content, impossible to make PvP a meaningful and fun part of the game, impossible to attract new players.
And that's probably not going to help this game prosper.

The complaints have a point - it's just not what the people who complain think it is.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,127
# 528
10-16-2012, 07:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by flekh View Post
But Cryptic really needs find a way to stop or at least slow the power creep, and find a way to close the gap between the good players and the bad, and to actually cut down on the effects of P2W, or it's getting impossible to balance any content, impossible to make PvP a meaningful and fun part of the game, impossible to attract new players.
And that's precisely why you'll never see it happen, as without the incentive of having much better stats, there'd be no longer any reason to buy the expensive ships any more.

P.S. 8x spiral disruptors? Interesting idea.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,085
# 529
10-16-2012, 08:08 PM
The greater than 125 weapons power thing tends to come and go though. Has it ever been confirmed as a 'bug' or a 'feature' out of curiosity?
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,553
# 530
10-16-2012, 09:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bareel View Post
The greater than 125 weapons power thing tends to come and go though. Has it ever been confirmed as a 'bug' or a 'feature' out of curiosity?
Feature. I have done testing with my ships and found that I get a buffer when firing if I know my power levels are above 125. Example from my tac oddy:

I put it on balanced just to see what it's passive gain was (I don't have any points in WCE, so there was no added bonus). I was in normal mode, and my weapons power was at 81/50. I did the saucer sep, and my weapons power went to 91/50. I then went into offensive mode, naturally got 125/100, then fire my weapons at a target. I was able to fire 4 of my beam arrays before any any noticeable reduction in power took place, and then with EPtW2 active, I was able to fire all 6 and stay above 90 power. Which kept my damage pretty high. Now if I only had 125 power available, my power would have drained to 70 with all 6 arrays firing. As is, it only dropped to 90, which means I got a +20 buffer from somewhere.

BUT, there have been times when my power drops to 80 when firing, and other times when my power doesn't go below 100 (that's when my tac oddy really shines). So tbh, I am not entirely sure how that overpowering works. But I do know it exists. And I do know for a fact and after dozens if not hundreds of tests and stfs that my weapon damage stays the same until my weapon power actually starts to drop. In other worse, my weapons don't get weaker until my power begins to drain. And my power never drains until at least 4 of my arrays are firing, sometimes more.

It's one of those weird things. Also sometimes EPtW keeps it above the cap (as in all weapons firing and I never go below 125), and sometimes it doesn't seem to have any actual effect on my power levels save maybe boosting them by 10 (even though it is listed as giving me 32.9 extra weapons power). So I honestly don't know in it's case.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Tired of Wasting EC and Time trying to get Superior Romulan Operative BOffs? Here's a cheap and easy way to get them, with an almost 100% chance of success.
Why the Devs can't make PvE content harder.
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