Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,898
# 601
10-20-2012, 02:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hereticknight085 View Post
However that would involve a huge overhaul of the system, which means that at MINIMUM the servers would be down for days. Minimum. Possibly weeks depending.
Not necessarily, Their "Seasons" are likely larger updates and those are s till only a few hours, I would suggest if it is going to take days to do everything regarding any weapon changes then update it one ship class at a time and iron out any bugs as you update each class so it is do-able without taking too long about a single update
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 145
# 602 the answer
10-20-2012, 02:42 AM
cruiser only corbomite consoles...
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,898
# 603
10-20-2012, 04:17 PM
I've become less convinced it's the ships, I finally got persuaded to change my power settings and it made a lot of difference according to a DPS meter I put out about 3.5k DPS in an ESTF so I'm not going to say eng/cruisers shouldn't get a boost (because of "Casual Kirks") but it's not all the ships and it's not all the beams and it's not all the engineer prof so yeah... go and play with your builds and see what happens
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,553
# 604
10-20-2012, 06:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adamkafei View Post
I've become less convinced it's the ships, I finally got persuaded to change my power settings and it made a lot of difference according to a DPS meter I put out about 3.5k DPS in an ESTF so I'm not going to say eng/cruisers shouldn't get a boost (because of "Casual Kirks") but it's not all the ships and it's not all the beams and it's not all the engineer prof so yeah... go and play with your builds and see what happens
About bloody time. Have you not been reading my posts on my damage output? Sheesh!! =P

You just need to maximize you build for damage output. Granted it means you can't do play builds (by play build I mean a build that you just derp around with for fun). Another thing is, serious players are the only ones that can get decent DPS out of cruisers.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Tired of Wasting EC and Time trying to get Superior Romulan Operative BOffs? Here's a cheap and easy way to get them, with an almost 100% chance of success.
Why the Devs can't make PvE content harder.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 232
# 605
10-20-2012, 09:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hereticknight085 View Post
About bloody time. Have you not been reading my posts on my damage output? Sheesh!! =P

You just need to maximize you build for damage output. Granted it means you can't do play builds (by play build I mean a build that you just derp around with for fun). Another thing is, serious players are the only ones that can get decent DPS out of cruisers.
TBH, the same is true for Escorts.
It's just a bit more intuitiv, since Escorts are advertised as dps-ships, so most people get that part right. With Escorts, you need to do your homework to build them to survive. Still, there's quite a few people who can't even get more dps out of them than a shuttle, as they run with setups close to what they find when they get them - a horrible mix of beams, cannons, torps and mines, with no synergy or sense.

Cruisers are advertised as tank-ships - so people often make the mistake to turn them into indestructible but useless bricks - and then end up not being able to kill anything.

Just as people who fly Sci-ships can be tempted to ignore everything except their Sci powers ... and end up with fragile ships that can't harm a fly.


Once you learn though which skills are needed for core defense (TT, EPtS, TSS, HE, Aux2SIF, maybe an RSP) and which can be used for offense (weapon type skills and attack patterns for Tac, EPtW and DEM for Eng) and build around that, with no more than a few select abilities for utility - then you unlock the true potential of your ships, with basic sustainability, solid dps, and still enough potential to fill any role suited to your ship preference.


That's pretty basic problems of game-design: If you give people options, you also give them the option to do things wrong. To be inefficient.
And if you don't give them options, you end up with a boring game instead.
Give them too many instructions, and players feel railroaded. Give them no instructions at all, leaving them to find their own way ... and a lot will get lost and fail.
Give people feedback on how they're doing, for example by having dps-meters and combat parsers build in, and people will complain about e-peen competitions and elitism. Don't give them those options ... and you breed ignorance and delusion, people who think they're doing fine while failing utterly.
Hard to do it right as a game-designer.

... but hey, that's what we got forums, and community sites for, that's what guilds/fleets can offer help with, right? So at least those people who actually want advice, and want to learn get the opportunity to do so.
... or come to the right place, ignore every advice, and complain. That's the problem with options.
Please get rid of (cross-)Healing in space
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,898
# 606
10-21-2012, 01:56 AM
My main problem was that I prefer to run a Jack of all trades cruiser. which was fin pre season 6 but then that changed completely; My damage (felt like it) dropped, NPCs started doing more damage than I could keep up with and the 3 piece borg set didn't help with the support factor of my builds. Which is why I came to the forums firstly to see if anyone else was having the same issue and ended up getting a new build however I'm sure you can understand given the reason above why I was resistant to a new play style.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,553
# 607
10-21-2012, 05:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adamkafei View Post
My main problem was that I prefer to run a Jack of all trades cruiser. which was fin pre season 6 but then that changed completely; My damage (felt like it) dropped, NPCs started doing more damage than I could keep up with and the 3 piece borg set didn't help with the support factor of my builds. Which is why I came to the forums firstly to see if anyone else was having the same issue and ended up getting a new build however I'm sure you can understand given the reason above why I was resistant to a new play style.
Jack of all trades may have worked pre season 6, but as you found out the hard way, it doesn't work that way anymore. I can understand resistance to change, but now that you know you need to build for pure damage output, I am sure your experience will be at least somewhat better. Hopefully.

Remember, the ship can only do what the player enables it to do. And the player can only enable to do what the player is capable of doing. There is where the power/weakness of the ships come from. Equipment is only 20% of the battle. The player is 50% of the fight. The ship is 20% of the battle, and the last 10% is just dumb luck. Welcome to your average MMO XD.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Tired of Wasting EC and Time trying to get Superior Romulan Operative BOffs? Here's a cheap and easy way to get them, with an almost 100% chance of success.
Why the Devs can't make PvE content harder.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 135
# 608
10-21-2012, 09:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hereticknight085 View Post
Jack of all trades may have worked pre season 6, but as you found out the hard way, it doesn't work that way anymore. I can understand resistance to change, but now that you know you need to build for pure damage output, I am sure your experience will be at least somewhat better. Hopefully.

Remember, the ship can only do what the player enables it to do. And the player can only enable to do what the player is capable of doing. There is where the power/weakness of the ships come from. Equipment is only 20% of the battle. The player is 50% of the fight. The ship is 20% of the battle, and the last 10% is just dumb luck. Welcome to your average MMO XD.
That "resistance to change" that you point out is a little deal that has completly ruined MMOs before. Case in point? The CU, NGE, and C6CD in SWG. The fact that it was like it was before, players have gotten used to the mechanics, incorporated them into their playstyle, made builds accordingly, and now are in a game that charges real money for respecs to comply with their CHANGES/NERFs causes even more problems than the NGE. NERFs cause less players, subs, and even C-Store buys, period. The sooner Cryptic development actualy figures this out, the better off the game will become and the more players we'll see.

That player "skill" you refer to as well, is only as good as that so called "20%" of gear allows you to be. In the case of "tanking", player skill doesn't have all that much to do with it. Tanking is the ability to soak up damage and if the mechanics you had were NERFed, the skill simply does not exist, or the perverbial "glass cannon" can tank better than the "tank" via P2W selling in the store, then the mechanics need to be CHANGED to allow for that player "skill", not to mention choice.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,395
# 609
10-21-2012, 09:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by esquire1980 View Post
In the case of "tanking", player skill doesn't have all that much to do with it.
Says you, my friend.

I have footage of people tanking real players in nothing but common Mk X gear, if you'd like.

vids and guides and stuff

[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,903
# 610
10-21-2012, 10:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by esquire1980 View Post
That "resistance to change" that you point out is a little deal that has completly ruined MMOs before. Case in point? The CU, NGE, and C6CD in SWG. The fact that it was like it was before, players have gotten used to the mechanics, incorporated them into their playstyle, made builds accordingly, and now are in a game that charges real money for respecs to comply with their CHANGES/NERFs causes even more problems than the NGE. NERFs cause less players, subs, and even C-Store buys, period. The sooner Cryptic development actualy figures this out, the better off the game will become and the more players we'll see.

That player "skill" you refer to as well, is only as good as that so called "20%" of gear allows you to be. In the case of "tanking", player skill doesn't have all that much to do with it. Tanking is the ability to soak up damage and if the mechanics you had were NERFed, the skill simply does not exist, or the perverbial "glass cannon" can tank better than the "tank" via P2W selling in the store, then the mechanics need to be CHANGED to allow for that player "skill", not to mention choice.
yeah it is really shamefull that skill change tokens cost that much, in a system that isn't really easy to figure out. I believe a 100 z-points would be more apropriate for that kind of skillsystem. Or it should be included to each ship you buy...since you probably need to change your skills according to your ship anyway.

i can't really agree on your argument that for tanking you need less skill as a player. For current PVE content that is true if you have the right build. But that is certainly not true anymore for PVP. And if you manage to survive in PVP with 5 heal skills, you can survive PVE with 3 or less.
So, does it take less skill to tank PVE?...sure, but that doesn't make you a good tank. A good tank can tank PVE bosses and still keep up with other cruiser that are more damage oriented, because the player skill allows to be more than just a punching ball.
Go pro or go home
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