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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,662
# 11
09-29-2012, 12:57 PM
Transwarped thread to the "Federation Shipyards" feedback forum, since it's Feedback about a Federation ship class.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,134
# 12
09-29-2012, 01:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by flash525 View Post
Cryptic have peeved off a lot of people; gamers, fans, artists. Nobody is perfect right?
PWE would like to think they are perfect.

also with regard to the general thread topic, Cryptic can just say to the guy "Well multi-verse" sadly they can use that argument to support whatever the hell they want to do to the game and there is nothing we can do about that as Multi-verse is a concept often used in Star Trek
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 70
# 13
09-29-2012, 01:58 PM
It may also have something to do with the way the meshes themselves are built. I recall reading something a long time ago about someone looking at STO ship models.

They were looking at the Excalibur as I recall, and when they checked the polycount, it seemed way too high. What they found out was that there were at least 5,000 polys around the edge of the saucer to make it appear smooth. When they removed all the unnecessary vertices, the mesh turned into something resembling play-doh.

If all the in-game models are as weird as that, then even small modifications would be a massive undertaking. Considering that would involve resources that they could devote to making more lockbox stuff and C-Store fluff, I would seriously doubt that the devs will be applying any further polish to any ship that doesn't cost $25 (and sometimes, not even then) anytime soon. Especially since the game has scores of bugs that have been present for quite some time.

What saddens me is that I have the Bridge Commander SNS Galaxy model converted for the SFC2/3 engine in Taldren's old model viewer right now, and that a low poly fan made galaxy model constructed for a game engine over 10 years old looks superior to the in-game graphics for the Galaxy in almost every way. So I can sympathize with everyone who looks at the Luna in-game (including her creator) and feels like she just looks wrong, wrong, wrong!
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 609
# 14
09-29-2012, 05:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by alchemistid View Post
It may also have something to do with the way the meshes themselves are built. I recall reading something a long time ago about someone looking at STO ship models.

They were looking at the Excalibur as I recall, and when they checked the polycount, it seemed way too high. What they found out was that there were at least 5,000 polys around the edge of the saucer to make it appear smooth. When they removed all the unnecessary vertices, the mesh turned into something resembling play-doh.

If all the in-game models are as weird as that, then even small modifications would be a massive undertaking. Considering that would involve resources that they could devote to making more lockbox stuff and C-Store fluff, I would seriously doubt that the devs will be applying any further polish to any ship that doesn't cost $25 (and sometimes, not even then) anytime soon. Especially since the game has scores of bugs that have been present for quite some time.

What saddens me is that I have the Bridge Commander SNS Galaxy model converted for the SFC2/3 engine in Taldren's old model viewer right now, and that a low poly fan made galaxy model constructed for a game engine over 10 years old looks superior to the in-game graphics for the Galaxy in almost every way. So I can sympathize with everyone who looks at the Luna in-game (including her creator) and feels like she just looks wrong, wrong, wrong!
Which leads us to another problem, the ships should be rescaled! Rescale everything, bigger = better in my book.

Reality Check for Mewi: They wont do that, because that involves... effort. D:

| Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,911
# 15
09-29-2012, 06:33 PM
Yeah this is a very classic example about how the easiest and laziest way to deal with things is always done this way. Instead of making ships how they should look or setting up ships and abilities to their appropriate factions they are basically made and tailored for one faction and then copy and pasted replace federation text with KDF and then you got cross faction material which never ends up leaving the player with any satisfaction or feeling that they are playing something Klingon/KDF.

I agree with that Negh'Var its always missed that look it had from the series IMO and the bridge lay out does not even make it feel like a warship it just makes it feel like its a federation ship stuck inside the armor of a klingon one.

In most cases though when everything is incorporated they play the silence game and just ignore someone unless its costing them potential profits... they just hope someone gives up and goes away so they never have to face the issue.
Ensign
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 19
# 16
09-30-2012, 02:27 PM
Hey all Sean here the designer of the Luna Class/Titan. I understand the pressures the devs here have on their plates with the ships. I just have never been happy with the way they represented the Luna in the game. I can handle the little details, but what really really ticks me off is the sensor pod and it's deflector that is installed on it.

THe sensor pod does not have a deflector dish on never did never wanted.
As for other details they are minor, and I was going to get capt Logan all the detailed
images of the Luna for rework before he left. Since then I have tried contacting people at cryptic to get them the images but no one has.


As most of you know I also developed a Mirror Universe version of the Titan a while back, and when I saw what they were calling a Mirror Luna for the game I had really got ticked off. I designed a way better version that they could of used all they need to do is ask and I would of been more than happy to let them have it.

I have always been open to letting more of my design go into the game if they wanted.

Oh well off my soap box. Thanks for all of your support.

Sean
Ensign
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 19
# 17
09-30-2012, 02:39 PM
Here are some Links to my I.S.S. Titan and other Mirror Universe Creations Feel free to take a look.

http://stourangeau.deviantart.com/#/d3116pd
Mirror Universe Art - http://stourangeau.deviantart.com/gallery/445971
Commissions - http://stourangeau.deviantart.com/gallery/7624222
Titan Images - http://stourangeau.deviantart.com/gallery/445973

And the Titan Shipyards - http://hammerheadgraphics.iwarp.com/TitanShipyards/


Enjoy,

Sean
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 855
# 18
09-30-2012, 03:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecosmic1 View Post
Give me a break, people. This game is set 30 years past Nemesis. Even the TOS Enterprise was refit into the TMP Enterprise in half that many years. Just chalk up the differences in the various ships to 3 to 25 decades of refits - the 25 for the people who want to say the NX isn't perfect either.
No, I WON'T give you a break.

Going by your logic, why do we have Galaxy Classes ingame? In the "30 years since TNG", the Galaxy should've been refitted to "Galaxy-X" specs. I.e the 3rd nacelle, spinal lance, cannons etc. Miranda Classes are woefully outdated, yet they seemingly remain a full 130 years post-Wrath of Khan. Cryptic covers these facts up, by justifying it as being "recreations" of existing ship classes. Why would ANY Captain wanna fly a 130 year old rust-bucket, when they could be flying Odyssey Classes, or Regent Classes?

You "Cryptic defenders" seem to justify all the mistakes on the ships, by that it's been 30 years since Nemesis. I say, Cryptic should've just run with ALL ORIGINAL designs, and skipped all the canon ships in the first place. But that would be a disservice to the fans, wouldn't it?

Honestly, as the designer of the Luna Class, I hope Sean Tourangeau takes legal action against Cryptic/PW for bastardizing his designs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by flash525 View Post
Firstly, the minute you pick the ship, you're given the option to customise it, so it is no longer a true Luna Class (from any point of view). Secondly, Cryptics idea of a Mirror Universe ship is a simple re-skin. If people started suggesting that the Mirror Universe models (and not just their textures) were different, Cryptic would have a lot of work cut out for them having to essentially rework every Terran vessel.
Number #01: If Cryptic wants to have "Mirror Universe" or Terran Empire ships in the game, that's fine. But leave them as an NPC faction like they used to be. That way you can design truly unique ships indicative of the "violent" nature of the Mirror Universe.

Number #02: I refuse to believe that all ship classes are virtual copies of the "Prime Universe" ships. The Mirror "TOS Enterprise" is easily explained by the lack of budget back in the 60s. The Mirror "Defiant" in DS9, is explained by Mirror O'Brien having copied the plans for the Defiant.

Number #03: Lastly, having the Mirror Universe ships being nothing more than simple "retextures" of the Prime Universe ships, is indicative of the lazy nature of certain Cryptic developers.

Last edited by meurik; 09-30-2012 at 03:26 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,628
# 19
09-30-2012, 03:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tourangeau001 View Post
As most of you know I also developed a Mirror Universe version of the Titan a while back, and when I saw what they were calling a Mirror Luna for the game I had really got ticked off. I designed a way better version that they could of used all they need to do is ask and I would of been more than happy to let them have it.
No offense but Mirror ships in this game are exactly like their Prime counterparts just with different markings, it seems your mirror version have enough differences to qualify as a different model.

One thing is just giving a Mirror universe markings to the ship, another is making a whole new model and plenty of ships on the game have model issues (hello there misaligned Galaxy-X Phaser Lance) and even texture problems (hello there Venture), people have asked for the Refit Sovereign model and that still have not happened.

What I am saying is they are putting the Mirror ships on the lockbox as a smaller prize since they are are pretty much the Mirror Universe ships we fight, they are very low cost for them as a new model would require the use of resources they are unlikely to commit outside a new Lockbox/Zen Shop ship.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 199
# 20
09-30-2012, 05:37 PM
Well, let the truth be known that since the departure of Adam "AKA" (Logan) which was working on the correction of these problems has vanished and this is very disappointing as we have been stating it and stating it that many ships have many flaws which need to be fixed. No excuses, if the guy that created the Titan, Luna Class is saying something perhaps you should pick up the phone or reply to his email.
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