Lieutenant
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 87
# 1 the Odyssey dilemma
10-02-2012, 06:51 AM
Here's one I've been having real trouble deciding on.

I've recently been leveling up an engineer toon, specialising in space combat, suited to an engineer in a cruiser - "efficient captain, warp theorist, techie" etc. He's designed to be a traditional tank/support vessel, no hybrid DPS cruiser for anything, however a few teeth would be nice too.

He's now at level 48, so I'm coming to my endgame choice for cruiser.

Dilemma is as follows - I paid for the tactical Odyssey ages ago, when I first started playing, rather stupidly thinking that a newbie could fly a cruiser with a tac toon. So it stood there, unused for ages. Now here I am with an engineer, who can finally take advantage of the Odyssey. But the question is - because I've already paid for one, I can no longer buy the Oddy pack. So if I want all three, I have to pay for the other two. Admittedly, it's so long ago, it would cost the same as the pack to me now.

The big question - are the Oddy toys worth paying for?? Should I dump the Aquarius escort and be happy with 10 consoles?

If the three pack is genuinely worth it, I'm willing to pay, but it's a lot of zen so I have to be sure the cost is worth it.

Keep in mind, I'm wanting to be a tank/support cruiser, but not without teeth.

So for all you out there with the Oddy three pack - is it worth it?

Any input would be gratefully received!

Cheers
Admiral Tuwud - High Commissioner, UFP Peace Corps Sigma Red
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,703
# 2
10-02-2012, 07:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by weirdtrekie30 View Post
Here's one I've been having real trouble deciding on.

I've recently been leveling up an engineer toon, specialising in space combat, suited to an engineer in a cruiser - "efficient captain, warp theorist, techie" etc. He's designed to be a traditional tank/support vessel, no hybrid DPS cruiser for anything, however a few teeth would be nice too.

He's now at level 48, so I'm coming to my endgame choice for cruiser.

Dilemma is as follows - I paid for the tactical Odyssey ages ago, when I first started playing, rather stupidly thinking that a newbie could fly a cruiser with a tac toon. So it stood there, unused for ages. Now here I am with an engineer, who can finally take advantage of the Odyssey. But the question is - because I've already paid for one, I can no longer buy the Oddy pack. So if I want all three, I have to pay for the other two. Admittedly, it's so long ago, it would cost the same as the pack to me now.

The big question - are the Oddy toys worth paying for?? Should I dump the Aquarius escort and be happy with 10 consoles?

If the three pack is genuinely worth it, I'm willing to pay, but it's a lot of zen so I have to be sure the cost is worth it.

Keep in mind, I'm wanting to be a tank/support cruiser, but not without teeth.

So for all you out there with the Oddy three pack - is it worth it?

Any input would be gratefully received!

Cheers
Worth using in general as it's a great ship, though one has to learn to live with flying something that turns about as fast as the Kremlin.

So far as the 'toys' go (and this is MY opinion only):
Workbees: Pretty useful in a pinch, as provide quick hull damage repair - but only up to around 75%, at which point they just float around doing nothing.
Aquarius Escort/Destroyer: Not terribly useful really - provides extra DPS, but has an annoying habit of A: flying off to do what it wants, B: getting caught in enemy ship explosions, resulting in it simply sitting there burning. or C: getting smacked by enemy ships, resulting in it simply sitting there burning.
Saucer seperation: considered the better of the Odyssey options, since it turns the usually cumbersome primary section into something that is capable of actually turning!

You could, of course, consider the Regent class if you wanted something that can turn better, and THAT comes with a wide-angle Quantum torpedo launcher which is great for slow-turning ships.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iconians View Post
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The question being asked is, "How do we stop players from doing this?"
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 87
# 3
10-02-2012, 07:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by reyan01 View Post
Worth using in general as it's a great ship, though one has to learn to live with flying something that turns about as fast as the Kremlin.

So far as the 'toys' go (and this is MY opinion only):
Workbees: Pretty useful in a pinch, as provide quick hull damage repair - but only up to around 75%, at which point they just float around doing nothing.
Aquarius Escort/Destroyer: Not terribly useful really - provides extra DPS, but has an annoying habit of A: flying off to do what it wants, B: getting caught in enemy ship explosions, resulting in it simply sitting there burning. or C: getting smacked by enemy ships, resulting in it simply sitting there burning.
Saucer seperation: considered the better of the Odyssey options, since it turns the usually cumbersome primary section into something that is capable of actually turning!

You could, of course, consider the Regent class if you wanted something that can turn better, and THAT comes with a wide-angle Quantum torpedo launcher which is great for slow-turning ships.
Yeah, I agree, if I were to buy just one, it would be the operations Oddy.

I already have the Regent glass, for my tac toon when not playing STFs, so have access the wide angle torp launcher

But - and this is a big but, the Regent has only Cmdr and Lt engineering slots - not very tanky and only 9 consoles. Doesn't strike me as the sort of ship to deliberately draw agro with - and it doesn't have the positive shield modifier.

I could be wrong here - any Regent captains able to answer that one?
Admiral Tuwud - High Commissioner, UFP Peace Corps Sigma Red
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 177
# 4
10-02-2012, 08:13 AM
Oddy's are horrible. Leave it alone and focus on a ship that can protect itself.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 87
# 5
10-02-2012, 08:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by scbypwr View Post
Oddy's are horrible. Leave it alone and focus on a ship that can protect itself.
Care to elaborate on that? For instance, how can't it protect itself? Also, I was planning a fleet support ship, not a ship than can protect itself.. so that's a consideration, in that it doesn't have to protect itself completely.

Also, what do you mean by horrible? On paper, the high hull, the positive shield modifier, 10 consoles, on paper stack up to ship that can, for instance, in STF's park over the K'ang and draw agro...

If you could expand on what you said, I'd be really grateful
Admiral Tuwud - High Commissioner, UFP Peace Corps Sigma Red
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 177
# 6
10-02-2012, 09:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by weirdtrekie30 View Post
Care to elaborate on that? For instance, how can't it protect itself? Also, I was planning a fleet support ship, not a ship than can protect itself.. so that's a consideration, in that it doesn't have to protect itself completely.

Also, what do you mean by horrible? On paper, the high hull, the positive shield modifier, 10 consoles, on paper stack up to ship that can, for instance, in STF's park over the K'ang and draw agro...

If you could expand on what you said, I'd be really grateful
I kinda look at the capability of a ship as a integral part of a team. If the ship isn't going to provide any additional DPS, it had better do something else good....crowd control, healer, etc.

Issue today, an escort properly configured has twice the dps, crowd control, and the ability to heal itself half as good as a cruiser. For PVE, you dont need anything else and when you find this out and then join a PvE match with a a couple of cruisers...you will notice the dps shortcomings of a cruiser.

I also look at certain situations...like protecting the Kang. Biggest nugget mistake I see...lemme sit on the kang and protect it.

Best defense is good offense and I can protect the kang in my escort much better than the players 'sitting' on the kang. I can do that and release the other four team members to destroy mission objectives.

Cruisers are weak unless it has a pilot that knows what to do...even then...probably still better in another ship.

Funny thing...I find science ships more useful than cruisers...and the Odyssey was $50 mistake that I wish I could have back.

Apart from being big and pretty (eye of the beholder..for sure) ship, odyssey is an anchor...and nothing more.

P.S. If you decide to run the odysses with all of its toys..you just made it into an expensive 7 console ship...
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,814
# 7
10-02-2012, 09:27 PM
I agree and disagrre with some of the things previously said.

I run a tac captain in a science oddy. fully buffed each beam can produce a 2k hit.

But onto my answers.

The oddy console bonus isn't worth it. fact is an rcs accellerator and a neutronium armor have better bonuses. The saucer sep is nice but I have recently stopped using it, I found I rarely actualy seperated the damn thing and now just keep it on hand for if the need arises. The sci oddy was probably the best buy since it had a console AND sensor analysis, so somthing to think about.

As for its usefulnedd on a team that would really depend on the team. I generaly only pug so teamwork isn't really somthing I have to worry about. (since most pugs don't even talk) But I find i can give ample dps support with some healing thrown in without compromising myself too badly.

Also go disruptor that 5% debuff can be prety handy since your toothyness is going to be limited.
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,063
# 8
10-03-2012, 05:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by weirdtrekie30 View Post
Yeah, I agree, if I were to buy just one, it would be the operations Oddy.

I already have the Regent glass, for my tac toon when not playing STFs, so have access the wide angle torp launcher

But - and this is a big but, the Regent has only Cmdr and Lt engineering slots - not very tanky and only 9 consoles. Doesn't strike me as the sort of ship to deliberately draw agro with - and it doesn't have the positive shield modifier.

I could be wrong here - any Regent captains able to answer that one?
I use the Regent on a tac toon.

Unfortunately the real rub is the lack of the shield mod. While EPtS2 and EPtS3 have a definitely noticeable difference in survivability, cycling one copy of each is usually sufficient. However, I often will BFaW right in the enemy's face with it, because I can handle damage better than an escort, and some part of me finds it a compliment that I've agroed the enemy enough to hate me.

In terms of the consoles, don't worry so much about it. If you're going to be getting the Odyssey you're going to have "only" nine consoles to work with if you use one of the bonuses - and you're going to have a SHORTAGE of consoles if you get the whole set (7). This will force a very difficult choice when I get around to getting the Borg console as I'll have to either dump a field generator, armor (leaving me with only one armor console!), the Aquarius (neutralizing the set bonus), or swap to the Science Odyssey so I can stick it in the newly acquired science console slot and "substitute" for the lost tac console with Sensor Analysis. Obviously none of these are very good choices.

As a note, IMO, the Metreon Gas for the Regent is pretty useless, so don't worry about that taking up a console slot. It's good for laughs, but unless you're a science toon or you love EWP and know how to use it well, it's just going to take up room you could use for something more useful.

In many ways the Regent is kind of like a Tactical Odyssey in permanent separation mode, if you had a tactically-inclined BOff. The separated Odyssey has better shields, a better turn rate, and possibly the set bonuses, but it will have slightly worse hull, and you have to deal with the side effects of saucer separation (namely the cooldown, and on the rare occasion it's dangerous to have the saucer doing it's own thing you won't be able to use it).

As a general warning, I am in a quandry about which to pick as my flagship - an Odyssey hull or the Regent. Right now I'm using the Regent. Even though its objectively inferior in some ways, it seems to feel like it's a better fit, but, we shall see.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,063
# 9
10-03-2012, 05:53 AM
Now that I've dumped my Regent-centric spam, here are a few words on the Odyssey.

First off, she's a great ship in general, just to get that out of the way, and if you take the time to configure her well she'll serve you well. That can be said of most ships, of course, but it bears mentioning because much of the "bad press" its gotten is pretty unfair, at least for the pay version.

Second, my experience is with a tac and eng toon with the pay pack, and a short while on my eng toon with the Odyssey Star Cruiser. The Tac Odyssey was my tac toon's main ship for most of the summer, so I've gotten to know her pretty well.

Now, as for the bonuses...

1) Saucer separation - This console is the bee's knees. It is in fact the reason I bothered to buy an Odyssey at all. If it didn't have this, I probably wouldn't have picked it up. The saucer separation is excellent. It turns your big, hulking cruiser into a sleek, fast attack ship with many of the battleship/dreadnaught qualities that make the Ody the Ody. However, it is not without its drawbacks, as you lose a noticeable amount of endurance and repair ability. For example, as stated, with decent structural integrity HP bonuses, I calculate that my Regent has more hull HP than the separated Odyssey. Your shields will also take a hit. The saucer itself is almost useless though it can offer some weak fire support, and will occasionally tractor beam things - in my experience, usually stationary objects. One thing to always remember - saucer separation, either for the Gal-R or Odyssey, is not about getting the saucer to help you. IT'S ABOUT GETTING RID OF THE DANG THING. "Relieved of her bulk, she is a formidable weapon," is what Worf said of the Galaxy class, and it holds true for its descendant.

2) Work Bees - these are surprisingly helpful and their range means you can sometimes help teammates that would normally be beyond your reach. Further they can act as an emergency bit of auto-healing for the Aquarius and saucer if you want to keep them active for a while. Note that the work bees can only be active on ONE target at a time, be it you, a pet (e.g. saucer), a teammate, a friendly target (e.g. a starbase), etc. It's something like a starship version of Nanite Health Monitor.

3) The Aquarius - Unfortunately, I have nicknamed this ship the 'Barge of the Dead.' Some really like it, but for me it hardly seems to last very long - in fact I've seen it shot down in 15-20 seconds after deployment. It CAN surprise you pleasantly on occasion, e.g. lasting through an entire STF, but that's pretty rare. Usually it'll end up gutted at the first repair station in Cure. I only carry the Aquarius for the set bonuses, and only deploy the Aquarius because I have it so I might as well use it. The cooldown also prevents you from rapid redeployment if it goes down. You'll have to keep an eye on it so that you can see if it's floating in space full of holes with irate DOffs screaming at you to pick them up before they run out of air.

SET BONUSES:

1) EPS bonus - gives you a bit more omph to your Emergency Power abilities, which you should probably be using since the Odyssey is a cruiser, and this is one of their strengths. It isn't much, but it's definitely worth mentioning. The power transfer speed boost is mild, but useful if you frequently switch power profiles.

2) Hull bonuses - Unfortunately these are barely worth mentioning. I think that if you have a decent amount in both stats (hull reinforcements and armor), you only get something like 1-2% extra resistance.

3) Turn rate buff - Ehhhhh. This is so-so. I believe someone else mentioned a good RCS will get you more, and they're probably right. This seems to come out pretty consistently to +.5 deg/sec no matter what your ship configuration is. Do note that a major problem with the Odyssey is the inertia stat, which makes it have less "traction."

4) Cooldown shortening - If you turn out to like the set abilities, this WILL come in handy. In a tight spot this may be the difference between whether or not you can separate the saucer or Aquarius again in a mission after being shot down. It also helps the work bees, as you'll probably be using those a lot more frequently.

VERDICT:

I believe I would be unhappy with the Odyssey if I did not pick up the set. If I had to choose only one, it would be the Ops, for the saucer separation. IMO the Ops Odyssey is the worst hull, so if you go with this you will probably want to combine the Tac Ody with the Saucer Sep console. This assessment of the Ops Odyssey because the power bonuses are lackluster (+5 eng won't do squat for the Odyssey - I think it gives you a whopping +.1 deg/sec for turn rate!), and the engineering slots won't get you as far as you would hope - I believe armor consoles are among the very few that do have diminishing returns.

The set bonuses, I'm not sure on - it makes it feel more like the Odyssey when I have them, and it makes the saucer separation and work bees more useful. While small, these are unique and useful bonuses. However, I am also aware that they come at a very steep price in terms of console slots, and may one day be forced to lose the bonuses and the Aquarius in order to have a more solid build. I am not looking forward to that day. This can be partially mitigated with the Science Odyssey with Sensor Analysis, but only partially. That said, the Science hull might be best for you between superior tanking and SA. Do note that while useful, SA is NOT all it's cracked up to be - in fact in PvP it's less useful than you'd imagine, since things like battle cloaks and sensor jamming can force you to completely start over with the time, and if you're supporting your team you will have to choose between waiting to hit harder and keeping a team member from exploding.

If I were to do it all over again I'd definitely pick it up - but the full pack. I'm not sure I could justify the full price of all three to myself.

As a final note, about the saucer separation - someone mentioned previously that they don't use it very often. I must unfortunately agree to some extent; while I'd never get rid of it, I have it activated MAYBE 20% of my combat time and probably closer to 5-10%, thanks to the unenviable cooldown. Often I sep for a boss fight, or in a situation like KA space, where I may use it if I have to get from one place to another FAST. But you have to do cooldown all over again if you're beaten as you auto-rejoin. You MUST be able to tolerate the Odyssey's base handling characteristics long enough to be able to wait between cooldowns if necessary, and be prepared to be in joined mode most of the time if need be. It is NOT a cure-all for the Odyssey's basic nature, which is a huge, fat, lumbering cruiser, and this is an inescapable fact at the end of the day.

I'm sorry if this doesn't help much - I'm indecisive myself so I just bought the full pack when I got it, and even then I obviously remain indecisive about which hull to use. But hopefully this will let you make a more informed decision.
Career Officer
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 566
# 10
10-03-2012, 06:12 AM
The set bonus is not really worth the bother. However, the separation console on a tac oddy with all cannons up front and turrets rear is a fair impersonation of a ultra heavy escort. In my experience.
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