Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 566
# 11
10-04-2012, 06:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hurleybird View Post
Damnit, I was drinking milk when I read that!
Hope you didn't eat cookies with milk, lol.
Hear! Sons of Kahless
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,764
# 12
10-04-2012, 07:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by havam View Post
the problem isn't cruisers, but the awesomesauce that tac/cruisers can be, compared to the lameass excuse of eng/cruisers or eng/scorts.
The problem is that the game has been designed to make the player overcome high HP opponents in PvE that have no intelligence or embedded AI combat routine that is fixed thier thier faction so direct damage is the best way and the non-tactical classes/vessels can not compete with a tac in Direct damage normally.
The Devs need to rethink thier difficulty set-up and make the AIs play smarter not be just tougher. Then possibly the Engineer and Science classes/vessels can compete using non-direct damage powers to be more helpful in PvE besides just a healer/support.

Making the Cruiser deadlier will not help and will just skew things out of balance more.
Making beams more damaging will not help as the Escort can use those beams and still be more effective.

1)My suggestion is making DBBs rear slottable on Cruisers/Science vessels.creating a new.
2)Create a new beam BOff ability that fits into the buffing CRF style attack. Possibly a sustained beam attack or a beam rapid fire variant.
3) Drop CRF/CSV down to being a T1 through T3 BOff ability to allow Cruisers access to CRF3/CSV3 at LTC on those Cruiser with the LTC Tac/BOff choice.
Richard Hamilton (1975-2014)
goodbye good friend. We will see you in the DMZ in the sky oneday, save a shot for us.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,680
# 13
10-04-2012, 07:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemepwe View Post
The Devs need to rethink thier difficulty set-up and make the AIs play smarter not be just tougher.
While this is a common issue in the majority of MMOs - where it's just a meatier mob with a bigger club for the increase in difficulty, it's apparent in a sad way in STO where you can fight a level 1 version of a mob and fight a level 50 version of the same mob.

Sometimes the AI's just broken as well. You jam and they just stop. Their AI is set to look for another target, it doesn't find one, so it just sits there and lets you frag it. There are ships you can sit on top of - literally, on top - where they will just fly around ever so slowly with you up there and fire the odd beam if they have it. If you were in a front/rear/side arc, it would use any of its abilities - fire torps - etc, etc, etc. But because you are where you are, they just let you kill them.

Players (hopefully) get better as they play. Mobs don't. A player that has abilities that require an arc will (hopefully) try to get the target in that arc.

The game woefully prepares anybody to face another player. Tada, countless threads from PvE All Stars that finally decide to PvP at 50 and it's like waking up after a night of binge drinking next to a hairy guy asking if you want to cuddle... yes, as a guy. They freak out. It's to be expected.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,764
# 14
10-04-2012, 07:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
The game woefully prepares anybody to face another player. Tada, countless threads from PvE All Stars that finally decide to PvP at 50 and it's like waking up after a night of binge drinking next to a hairy guy asking if you want to cuddle... yes, as a guy. They freak out. It's to be expected.
Yes, it is like waking up to some Cell Block C lovin.
The prime issue is that it seems the Dev may listen to these ill informed complaints......
Richard Hamilton (1975-2014)
goodbye good friend. We will see you in the DMZ in the sky oneday, save a shot for us.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,678
# 15
10-04-2012, 07:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hurleybird View Post
Damnit, I was drinking milk when I read that!
we've been over this, with the abundance of healing Engs have lost their native advantage. Who needs to put an eng into the recluse to hit 6mio healing average? but another SNB is always welcome. BFI DOFFs, Jem Bug, assim set all give out great heals to every ship no matter the player class, again less use for a healer.

Without healing, what fun is there to play and eng/cruiser? all it does it prolongs the match...

Let me see you great premade with two or more eng cruisers and then tell me it isn't a waste/snoozefest/no end match. take it to NWS if you like....

tac/fleet vorcha's or sci are at least fun, and still more viable then a second eng cruiser, let alone an eng/scort or sci to begin with.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemepwe View Post
Making the Cruiser deadlier will not help and will just skew things out of balance more.
Making beams more damaging will not help as the Escort can use those beams and still be more effective.
S.a. Escort healing has to go down by like 50% and Sci ships by maybe 25% for eng to shine again.

It s not just PvE dummies crying, there is too much healing in this game, to the point that it has made a whole class superfluous.

Even worse, with all the healing eng's can bring a prolonged death sentences,but thats it. Because of the yo-yo nature of STO healing, your team doesn't get an advantage for fighting off death over time, so sooner or later random procs will kill even the best heal/tank under focus, but there is no gain for the tank to have prolonged the match until this point.

If eng healers, or eng scorts are so great, how come all those great knowledgeable PvPers don't field them en mass? How come that most build in this section (spare an updated Starcruiser build) are tac or sci build, that can be used by engs, too, let alone their Cpt powers have zip synergy with these build?
Joined 06.10
PvP 2010-2011
PvP 2012-2013

Last edited by havam; 10-04-2012 at 07:58 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 880
# 16
10-04-2012, 07:53 AM
What does this have to do with milk coming out my nose?
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 514
# 17
10-04-2012, 07:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by matteo716maikai View Post
Hey critters and stuffs!

i still havent played so i'm just going on what i hear via the forums and steam chats.

the timestuff is op, but thats pretty much how every pay to win thing is. always more powerful then the last pay to win item. welcome to world of the "rich".

the ground stasis pistol got a little balanced with being effected by resits, why hasnt the space version been changed too?

i hear rumors that the siphion drones will be changed with season 7. thats in a couple months. they say we'll get full testing on tribble before it goes live to make adjustments. lets hope thats true.

accusations of plasma torps causing lag in space combat -snickers-

apparently the cruiser is the most hated and most loved ship by cryptic in the game (see the pvp thread- http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...d.php?t=401171 and the pve thread- http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...d.php?t=400561 ) the irony...


borticus confessed to not testing something in a multiplayer enviroment, makes me wonder what else hasnt been tested properly- "I confess to not having tested it with teammates, only in a 1v1 situation. So I can't give you a definite answer."

rumor has it that cryptic cares about pvp. -rolls eyes-

the subnuc doffs are being changed, weither or not they will be more balanced is up for debate.

A new bot pvp team has infiltrated the pvp queues!!

fleet weapons for pvp kinda blow.

the game needs more tribbles.

And thats this weeks recap/update. as usual anything thats needed will be added.

-Mai Kai the Paper Guy-
There updated it for ya :p
Banned
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 846
# 18
10-04-2012, 07:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by havam View Post
the problem isn't cruisers, but the awesomesauce that tac/cruisers can be, compared to the lameass excuse of eng/cruisers or eng/scorts.
You wouldn't catch me dead as a tac flying the following.

Starcruiser
Assault Cruiser
Negvar
Oddy
Recluse
Dkyr
Nebula
DSSV
Orion Flight Deck Cruiser
Voquv Carrier
Atrox Carrier
Orion Ball Sack

There's plenty of Amazing Eng cruisers in the game. Stop facerolling yourself and get over it. "qqn I don't dps qqn!" You have RSF. That's all you need. Jesus. (especially with the advent of an Extend Shields doff)

If you want to play damage, to play a Tac. Infact go put him in a Cruiser, and borrow one of my builds. And see how "easy" it is to do so to do any meaningful damage, particularly fedside. There's only a handful of builds that work well enough to be taken on a Premade Level for tacs. Funny that most of said builds are in my thread.

Yet even a sub par eng healer build is still good enough, since it doesn't have to keep heals in reserve to save it's own ass.

Last edited by ghostyandfrosty; 10-04-2012 at 08:01 AM.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,678
# 19
10-04-2012, 08:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostyandfrosty View Post
You wouldn't catch me dead as a tac flying the following.

Starcruiser
Assault Cruiser
Negvar
Oddy
Recluse
Dkyr
Nebula
DSSV
Orion Flight Deck Cruiser
Voquv Carrier
Atrox Carrier
Orion Ball Sack

There's plenty of Amazing Eng cruisers in the game. Stop facerolling yourself and get over it. "qqn I don't dps qqn!" You have RSF. That's all you need. Jesus.
not interested in DPS, but i see no point in bringing another 2mio healing to my sci brothers 6mio healing.....its no fun, and superfluous

wow guess engs should be happy that some cruisers are still better suited to their task, then to tacs dpsing.
same for sci ships, cc is in such a sad state, why would anybody choose a nebula over a starcruiser as healer?? it doesn't add up.
How many of the above combos would you include in a premade?Cruiser: Oddy> SC/AC, all are better then Eng Nebbie, Dk'yr DSSV...
Recluse> other carriers
...*yay*

Now think about the list of things you wouldn't catch an eng dead in... notice something about the length of that list...though so.
Joined 06.10
PvP 2010-2011
PvP 2012-2013

Last edited by havam; 10-04-2012 at 08:07 AM.
Banned
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 846
# 20
10-04-2012, 08:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by havam View Post
not interessted in DPS, but i see no point in bringing another 2mio healing to my sci brothers 6mio healing.....its no fun, and superflous
Easy reason why.

In an SNB Doff Environment, Eng wins hands down. Everyone else has to keep heals in Reserve still. The Eng, can just save RSF for post Nukes and keep on trucking.

Also, I wouldn't trust a sci captain in a Recluse. Or starcruiser for that matter, honestly any fed cruiser that isn't an Excelsior. The ships are far too slow to use Nuke without Aux ID Cranking (and the REcluse will STILL be too slow). And if they are cranking Aux ID that means ASIF just got put on a shared CD. And that's one less Critical Heal in the arsenal. Sci belong in Sci Ships, or Escorts fedside.

There's a CC build for a Starcruiser, or Oddy that works for sci captains, by virtue of having TBR on board to kick the targets out farther and make the effective distance to turn smaller. But that's it, and even that costs Healing.

Last edited by ghostyandfrosty; 10-04-2012 at 08:06 AM.
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