Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,469
# 21 CSV vs CRF
10-04-2012, 11:21 AM
No CSV wont do the same damage on a single target as CRF BUT a properly timed Torpedo Spread 3 with quantums will more than make up the difference.

Recommend torps with CrtH mod for this
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 69
# 22
10-04-2012, 11:44 AM
Thanks for the build suggestions Bareel. I might just give this a try with my Engineer/Escort.

There's so many elitists on this board it's not funny, and I'm not laughing. For the naysayers please read the following again and try to understand what he's presenting to us:

Quote:
Originally Posted by bareel View Post
These builds were inspired by a desire to have more effective options in STFs without the standard CRF escort of doom........especially if your getting discouraged trying to make a round cruiser/sci fit into the square hole of an STF.......And while these are not optimal builds by any means they are fun and very effective.....the sad fact of the matter for me was that the escort could fill the role (tank/cc) 'well enough' and still put out the DPS.
The elitists complain when you bring a cruiser into an STF declaring that they don't do enough DPS and are too selfishly tanky, but when you put an engineer into an escort that suits an engineer best they still complain that you're not doing enough?

Are you doing more DPS? - YES
Are you less selfishly tanky? - YES

What's the problem then?

Not everyone has the time to "roll a tac" and only has one character, Bareel makes some useful suggestions and the elitists schit all over him, nice trolling job!

In my opinion Bareel you're doing the best of a bad situation in this DPS centred game and I thank you for thinking outside of the box.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,179
# 23
10-04-2012, 01:39 PM
heres a pvp build i can come up with off the top of my head that will smash through any stf. for a patrol escort, fleet patrol escort, fleet/retro somra, bug, fleet/retro escort, retro scourge, anything with an eng ensign station

4DHC/3turrets

borg engine, deflector, maco for fed/khg shield or fleet advanced resistant shield for kdf

TT1, CRF1, APO1, CRF3
TT1, CSV1, APO1

EPtS1, AtS1
EPtS1

PH1, HE2


consoles for stf-

eng consoles- 2 Monotanium, 1 Electroceramic

sci consoles- borg, field projecter/p2w console

tactical consoles- 4 energy type

works good in pvp because it maximizes the damage you can deal in an alpha strike, is immune to tractor beams, and can deal with spam a bit with a CSV handy.

in stfs it can give you huge single target damage potential, tractor immunity because borg like tractors too, and an aoe attack against multiple spawns.

there, this thread just became 10 times more useful.




a more advanced build would bring something like this

4DHC/2turrets, 1 tric mine

TT1, CRF1, APO1, DPB3
TT1, CRF1, APO1

EPtS1, AtS1
EPtS1

PH1, HE2

now you can 1 shot groups of spawns and cubes
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,026
# 24
10-04-2012, 02:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
TT1, CRF1, APO1, CRF3
TT1, CSV1, APO1

EPtS1, AtS1
EPtS1

PH1, HE2
No RSP? Not sure why you would need AtS1 if you already have HE2 and the opportunity cost of not having RSP is too high imo. I would switch AtS1 with RSP and switch one of the EPtS1's with EPtE1 or EPtW1. But then again, I'm a noob.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,278
# 25
10-04-2012, 02:27 PM
In an STF CSV is far superior CRF. CSV is going to give you a big high yield defense as well.

CSE - Kang defense is all multi-target, clearing nanites is multiple targets, even the Neg and Raptor spawns are giving you more than one thing to hit. Boss has lots of spam, but super easy.

ISE is the most CRF friendly but is the least DPS oriented mission. The generators and transformers are single targets but are non-hostile so who cares? They go down fast. They sphere spam is where you lose time.

KASE probe duty is all multi target, even the CSV1 might have issues with 4 probes. Even the generators you are trying to hit more than one. The transformers are the biggest target but if you have 3 decent players they are only going to last seconds.

I'd rather go CSV than a CRF build, I'd take a Trico build over the CRF as well.

OPs builds are garbage, and TBR is likely to get them cussed out for wasting Alphas constantly and slowing down the team. Its kinda like the idiots with snipers in IGE.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,179
# 26
10-04-2012, 02:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by skurf View Post
No RSP? Not sure why you would need AtS1 if you already have HE2 and the opportunity cost of not having RSP is too high imo. I would switch AtS1 with RSP and switch one of the EPtS1's with EPtE1 or EPtW1. But then again, I'm a noob.
shield distribution BFI doffs, use them in place of RSP. have at least 3 green? 2 or 3 blue? 2 purple? 3 purple?! you wont miss RSP, but you will miss a hull heal every 15 seconds. or you can evasive away from imoble borg units and cycle EPtS to fill you back up. the other 2 doff slots you could slot conn doffs so you can evasive more often. your gonna need HE when they stack plasma fire on you. you want 2 EPtS1s for full up time on the sweet resistance it provides
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,273
# 27
10-04-2012, 02:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by orondis View Post

There's a gap of 5 seconds where you can actually use it. Chances are even perfectly timed it'll go to waste unless the target is held down and totally disabled. By which point he'd probably be doomed already, FOMM or no FOMM.
I agree to a certain extent. FOMM can be cleared by Tactical Team, and almost everyone in PvP carries at least one copy of Tactical Team. It is, however, useful on a hit-and-run BoP (the kind of build Thissler and Zirac use, as well as myself), as long as you time your attack between Tactical Team cooldowns. Since your ambush alpha run shouldn't last longer than 4-5 seconds, it's perfect for that particular purpose. It adds a very nice debuff, making your alpha much more effective.

Outside of other well-timed uses on exhausted-buff targets, though, it doesn't have much use. Fortunately, tac officers don't have to waste a Boff slot to get it, it's a 'free' debuff.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,179
# 28
10-04-2012, 02:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by travelingmaster View Post
I agree to a certain extent. FOMM can be cleared by Tactical Team, and almost everyone in PvP carries at least one copy of Tactical Team. It is, however, useful on a hit-and-run BoP (the kind of build Thissler and Zirac use, as well as myself), as long as you time your attack between Tactical Team cooldowns. Since your ambush alpha run shouldn't last longer than 4-5 seconds, it's perfect for that particular purpose. It adds a very nice debuff, making your alpha much more effective.

Outside of other well-timed uses on exhausted-buff targets, though, it doesn't have much use. Fortunately, tac officers don't have to waste a Boff slot to get it, it's a 'free' debuff.
if i can get someone alone, and see them use ET or ST, awwwwww yaaaaaaa FOMM time baby!
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,015
# 29
10-04-2012, 02:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hurleybird View Post
Sure, but later, if Ricky doesn't beat me to it. I need to get some sleep.
Here's my endorsement of tric mine abuse in STFs.

http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...=1#post5954871
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 883
# 30
10-04-2012, 07:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by orondis View Post
It's a very poor burst shield heal unless it's ST3, even then it's only use is when you're shields are virtually down all around. TT1 is far more effective.
ST 3 is an 18000+ burst heal if you're spec'd in. That's huge. TT works great when you have shields on other facings, but you still need to replenish them. I'm not saying that ST is the best PvE skill, but it's a passable one. Certainly not "a waste" of a skill in PvE like, say, RSP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by orondis View Post
You can use one and you won't lose your healing proficiency, it's only when you take 2xEPTS3 that you're being a noob. Also it's not just cruisers that can use EPTS3 now.
No, if you use even one copy of EPtS 3 you are doing it wrong. There are far better uses for high level engineering slots.

Quote:
Originally Posted by orondis View Post
There's a gap of 5 seconds where you can actually use it.
Assuming someone is chaining tactical team all the time, sure. But that's not really how it works in the real world. For example, if a player has tactical team up and get's SNBed, you immediately want to apply FoMM while his resistances are down. It can easily make the difference between getting a kill or not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by orondis View Post
Again though he's right. Baring slowing the firing rate of the target, SNB is of very little real use in PvE since so few NPCs actually use any buffs worth removing.
You aren't reading what I wrote. Of course SNB isn't a very good PvE ability, although you can use it to strip HYT off cubes and BFaW off gates it's usage is extremely limited vs. PvP. That doesn't matter. It's an irrelevant point to make. If you fly a science captain you can't chose to take something else instead, and the other science captain skills are almost necessary in No-Win so you're stuck with science captains in the only challenging PvE mission in the game anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by orondis View Post
With very small exceptions, you don't need to cross heal in PvE. Even a tac in an escort can tank a tactical cube or a gate.
You need healing in No-Win, definitely. Ideally in STFs you don't need much in the way of cross healing if you can kill everything quickly enough. Unfortunately though, PvErs and RPers suck at STFs, don't balance their shields, rarely heal each other, and have little in the way of meaningful DPS. Regardless, the experience goes far better when you send them heals to stop them from blowing up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by orondis View Post
CSV does less damage then CRF and is pretty much situational. Great for dealing with probes and spam, but not anywhere near as good as CRF for dealing with single targets.
CSV is worse for single target sure, but not by too much, and it's infinitely better at multi-target. On the whole, it's the attack skill you want to use for PvE. At the very least you want one copy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by orondis View Post
Don't get me wrong though, I'm not defending the Ops post, that is a terrible build.
Good to hear.

Last edited by hurleybird; 10-04-2012 at 07:37 PM.
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