Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,179
# 41
10-05-2012, 03:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bareel View Post
It is very impressive to me that you all are capable of knowing exactly how my ships perform and how much DPS they are capable of. The idea that you can determine from the weapon load outs and abilities used exactly how they synergy with the captain abilities along with the force multipliers they bring to know what they can do.
ya, thats pretty much what we are capable of. if you pvp long enough, you can look at a build and know exactly how it will do. every single weapon type and every single ability and how they react together is a know factor to us. we know the best combination of them.

your builds are incredibly contrived messes, the one with the torps? that has a single function, shooting at gates, and is 100% useless in every other situation.

the only tiny instance were beam arrays are useful on an escort is during a duel with a DHC escort. in no other situation is there a use for beam arrays on an escort you will always be hilariously infective, dealing just slightly more damage then a cruiser with a LTC tactical station.

an engineer is useless in an escort. an engineer cant spike, and if your escort cant spike, it cant kill anyone who knows how to balance their shields. a tactical in a cruiser can out dps an eng escort. nadion is the worst captain ability in the game, its same effect can be had by over capping your weapons energy, and that has full up time.

the MVAM build? ive never seen a more random jumble of tactical abilities, thats troll build territory there its so anti damage dealing, its frankly amazing

pure dps is the only thing you need to bring to an stf, everything else is secondary, and only sort of needed if you didn't bring enough dps. those builds are so contrived and dps-less,you would make runs harder for your team just by being there.
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,283
# 42
10-05-2012, 07:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
ya, thats pretty much what we are capable of. if you pvp long enough, you can look at a build and know exactly how it will do. every single weapon type and every single ability and how they react together is a know factor to us. we know the best combination of them.

your builds are incredibly contrived messes, the one with the torps? that has a single function, shooting at gates, and is 100% useless in every other situation.

the only tiny instance were beam arrays are useful on an escort is during a duel with a DHC escort. in no other situation is there a use for beam arrays on an escort you will always be hilariously infective, dealing just slightly more damage then a cruiser with a LTC tactical station.

an engineer is useless in an escort. an engineer cant spike, and if your escort cant spike, it cant kill anyone who knows how to balance their shields. a tactical in a cruiser can out dps an eng escort. nadion is the worst captain ability in the game, its same effect can be had by over capping your weapons energy, and that has full up time.

the MVAM build? ive never seen a more random jumble of tactical abilities, thats troll build territory there its so anti damage dealing, its frankly amazing

pure dps is the only thing you need to bring to an stf, everything else is secondary, and only sort of needed if you didn't bring enough dps. those builds are so contrived and dps-less,you would make runs harder for your team just by being there.
And yet the torp build kills raptors, Neg'vars, cubes, etc etc. Amazing.

And your saying to never bring an engineer to an STF, sorry thats just insanely arrogant.

The support ship is a jumble? Nah its pretty basic take out hard target shields with power drain and double team dps with APB/Sensor Scan. Not very complex yet still effective.

You are full of yourself.

You don't even understand this game enough to realize that the fleet ship retrofit shield modifiers as listed are correct. That they instead have a FLAT shield bonus. To test this all one would have to do is equip a Mk 1 shield and a mk 10+ shield on that ship and one with a comparable shield modifier and take them into space to look at the numbers. But you don't actually TEST things to make sure you are correct when you post do you?
Survivor of Remus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 242
# 43
10-05-2012, 07:53 PM
Well just because some one said it i decided to test it at 9k a DHC/DC/C/Turts has a loss of 84% of its dps and a BA/DBB has about 56%. At 6k a DHC/DC/C/Turts has a loss of 44% dps and a BA/DBB have a loss of 21% i did this with white MK I phaser weapons against a friend with MK I gear on just so we wouldnt have to figure out the extra damage mods and other crap and we both respected so we had no points in skills.
P.S. this took almost an hour.
So if i i use 1, just one DBB with beam overload at 9k i will do more damage then a full volly of RF at 9k at around 6k its even anything closer then 6k you might as well use the cannons.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,179
# 44
10-06-2012, 01:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bareel View Post
And yet the torp build kills raptors, Neg'vars, cubes, etc etc. Amazing.
they are npcs, they die in spite of your best efforts not to kill them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bareel View Post
And your saying to never bring an engineer to an STF, sorry thats just insanely arrogant.
i was speaking in terms of them being full time escort pilots. they are terrable at it, though i supose in an stf there woulnt be a beter choice of ship for them. if i say anything i proboly have pvp in mind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bareel View Post
The support ship is a jumble? Nah its pretty basic take out hard target shields with power drain and double team dps with APB/Sensor Scan. Not very complex yet still effective.
no, just the opposite of damage dealing. they are npcs, they don't balance their shields, theres no reason to try to take their subsystems off line because you only every have to shoot through 1 shield facing. truly absurd to waist a tactical station power on subsystem disables when fighting fricking npcs, the opertunity cost for an actual damage dealing skill in its place is huge. of course theres nothing wrong with beta, npcs cant clear it, its basically a pve only power now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bareel View Post
You are full of yourself.
this is whats constantly said to people that know better. now its my turn to say something whats constantly said someone who doesn't know better, L2P

Quote:
Originally Posted by bareel View Post
You don't even understand this game enough to realize that the fleet ship retrofit shield modifiers as listed are correct. That they instead have a FLAT shield bonus. To test this all one would have to do is equip a Mk 1 shield and a mk 10+ shield on that ship and one with a comparable shield modifier and take them into space to look at the numbers. But you don't actually TEST things to make sure you are correct when you post do you?
well look at you, think you have this convoluted fleet shield hit point thing all figured out? oh i doubt it. yes, i discovered last week that the ships don't in fact have wrong shield mods, it varies depending on the shield, i have since been trying to make sense of what actually going on, but haven't posted about it yet. thanks cryptic, really love all the undocumented modifiers everywhere, this should be part of the ships stat list.

and no, they don't have a FLAT shield bonus, if they did, it would just appear to be a higher shield mod like i originally suspected. the fleet ships that are based on tier 5 ships, and maybe tier 4 like the defiant, don't have an undocumented extra shield modifier, what is listed is what they have, regardless of shield. its the tier 2, tier 3, and maybe tier 4, don't know haven't bought a defiant, that have the hidden bonus to go with their lower mod.

and just so its impossible to ever figure out what that hidden mod is, they made it curve (not FLAT), it favors lower capacity shields. my ktinga that i though had a 1.07 mod, tested with mkXI KHG shield, gets more hit points then my fleet vorcha when the ktinga used the omega or borg shield. the vorcha has a steady 1.1 mod, but with an omega the ktinga seems to have a 1.11478, and with borg 1.14432.

turns out i have tested, and before, i admitted to using a very small sample size, regardless the information showed that the shields would be better then advertized. posting about this at all was a public service i was not obligated to do, and if people think those fleet ships are more viable then they look in the store, i proboly got cryptic a few more sales. once im satisfied that i wont be posting more misinformation, i'll present my findings more completely. i don't like that i jumped the gun and posted incomplete information, thats not my style.
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,015
# 45
10-06-2012, 05:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bareel View Post
That those builds in the other thread deal 'order of magnitude' more DPS? Really? Quantium Defiant cleared 6 nanite probes and the neg'var/raptor spawn in under six minutes solo with me being extremely sloppy. That means every single build in that post can do it in what 2 minutes? Really? It puts out 8k+ DPS vs borg structures so every build in that post puts out 16-24k DPS? Bull. It can kill the 3 raptors before they hit kang solo, that means what those other builds kill them all before they even move a single KM?
Last night I cleared all 6 in under 1 minute.

Also, my MVAM hit Donatra with a 66k, 60k, and 52k from the same deployment. The fourth never hit because it wasn't necessary. So, even though it only needed to do 75% of its potential damage to get the job done it still did as much damage in 1 hit against a NPC that was fighting back as you get in 22 seconds against a structure. That's with only 1 console supporting the tric. Don't forget I still had CRF and HYT going, so yeah, order of magnitude.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,283
# 46
10-07-2012, 02:25 AM
Re the Fleet Ship Shield Mod

It is a flat bonus number that (as far as I could tell) is not effected by consoles or skills. To find the value is pretty easy.

1st: Find the true shield strength of a shield for your toon by equipping it on a 1.0 mod ship without consoles and removing the skill bonus amount or using a toon without any skill.

2nd: Equip it to the fleet ship. Do the math to learn what the shield amount should be (base + mods)*multiplier. Then simple subtraction. The number will remain the same when the shield is changed.

It is a flat numeric bonus that is not effected by skills or gear why I have no clue. Least last time I tested it anyway.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,179
# 47
10-07-2012, 03:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bareel View Post
Re the Fleet Ship Shield Mod

It is a flat bonus number that (as far as I could tell) is not effected by consoles or skills. To find the value is pretty easy.

1st: Find the true shield strength of a shield for your toon by equipping it on a 1.0 mod ship without consoles and removing the skill bonus amount or using a toon without any skill.

2nd: Equip it to the fleet ship. Do the math to learn what the shield amount should be (base + mods)*multiplier. Then simple subtraction. The number will remain the same when the shield is changed.

It is a flat numeric bonus that is not effected by skills or gear why I have no clue. Least last time I tested it anyway.
except, like i said, the shield bonus favors lower capacity shields. on my fleet ktinga, the omega and borg shield both have a higher capacity then they do on my fleet vorcha. the fleet vorcha has a constant 1.1 mod no mater what shield it has, theres no hidden bonus on these native tier 5 ships.

i find it easiest to divide the fleet ships per facing amount by the facing amount on the ship with the 1.0 mod. the number thats left is what would appear to be the shield mod. but with it being a curved modifier, im not good enough at math to figure it out, theres proboly to many unknown variable to figure it out
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 883
# 48
10-08-2012, 10:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
its hard to use that extra tac ensign with 4 cannons, i tend to put i a single beam array in back and use it for a BO1, target subsystem, or faw to take care of mines chasing me. before i posted builds i would use to hop from pvp to stfs. sense these builds are ones i would only really take into stfs, a couple copies of ABP in place of APO, and grade 2 and 3 cannons skills would proboly be better.

MVAM

4DHC/2turrets, 1beam array

borg engine, deflector, maco for fed/khg shield or fleet advanced resistant shield for kdf

TT1, APB1, CSV2, CSV3
TT1, APB1,
BO1

EPtS1, EPtS2

PH1, HE2, GW1


consoles

eng consoles- 2 Monotanium

sci consoles- borg, 2 Graviton Generators

tactical consoles- 4 energy type

with the right specing and aux, the GW should hold spawns in place to be AOE'ed to death, thats why i would suggest CSV3 here. these 2 ships will be better at dealing with spawns wile the COM and LTC tac escorts would be better dealing with gates and the like

heavy escort

4DHC/2turrets, 1beam array

borg engine, deflector, maco for fed/khg shield or fleet advanced resistant shield for kdf

TT1, APB1, CSV2, CSV3
TT1, APB1,
BO1

EPtS1, EPtS2, EWP1

PH1, HE2,

consoles

eng consoles- 2 Monotanium, 1 Electroceramic

sci consoles- borg, field projector/p2w console

tactical consoles- 4 energy type

EWP is the most useful ability at dealing with spawns, especially in cure when raptors and negs start spawning. the hold lasts a very long time and deals ok damage to boot
Thanks for the build advice, my killing has gone up considerably and a lot faster too
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 883
# 49
10-08-2012, 10:21 AM
Now listen to Ricky and it will go up far, far higher!
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 883
# 50
10-08-2012, 10:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
and just so its impossible to ever figure out what that hidden mod is, they made it curve (not FLAT), it favors lower capacity shields. my ktinga that i though had a 1.07 mod, tested with mkXI KHG shield, gets more hit points then my fleet vorcha when the ktinga used the omega or borg shield. the vorcha has a steady 1.1 mod, but with an omega the ktinga seems to have a 1.11478, and with borg 1.14432
Quote:
Originally Posted by bareel View Post
You don't even understand this game enough to realize that the fleet ship retrofit shield modifiers as listed are correct. That they instead have a FLAT shield bonus. To test this all one would have to do is equip a Mk 1 shield and a mk 10+ shield on that ship and one with a comparable shield modifier and take them into space to look at the numbers. But you don't actually TEST things to make sure you are correct when you post do you?
Assuming you are both correct, then the fleet ships do favor lower capacity shields, but take the shield's level into account to derive where to place it. In other words, a mk 1 common will derive the same mod as a mk 10 common, but a mk 10 regenerative will be higher up on the curve than a mk 10 covariant.

That being said, understandably I have very little faith in bareel's testing, so it would be nice for someone more authoritative to corroborate how the lower tier fleet ships work when you vary a shield's mark.
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