Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 377
# 1 Does crew size REALLY matter?
10-04-2012, 09:45 PM
I'm looking for a cruiser SOLELY for PVP tanking. Can't decide between free Odyssey or Fleet Star Cruiser. The way I see it, I get one extra science console with the Fleet Star Cruiser, or over twice the crew with the Oddy. Now I know the GAME description makes a big deal about how crew helps your hull repair and regen rate, but in actual, tested gameplay, will it REALLY make a difference?
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,590
# 2
10-04-2012, 09:52 PM
A lot of people don't think crew size matters, just %. Personally I think both matter, and from having play-tested many ships with large and small crews, I have found that the ships with larger crews lose them faster and take longer to recover them, but overall hull repair is higher, whereas ships with smaller crews don't lose them nearly as fast and recover them much faster (% wise), but don't necessarily heal as quickly in and out of battles.

Example:
FPE crew 200, heals roughly 18% per minute in battle, 100 per minute outside of battle

AC crew 800, heals about 60-68% per minute in battle, 190 per minute outside of battle
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Why the Devs can't make PvE content harder. <--- DR proved me wrong!
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 377
# 3
10-04-2012, 10:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hereticknight085 View Post
A lot of people don't think crew size matters, just %. Personally I think both matter, and from having play-tested many ships with large and small crews, I have found that the ships with larger crews lose them faster and take longer to recover them, but overall hull repair is higher, whereas ships with smaller crews don't lose them nearly as fast and recover them much faster (% wise), but don't necessarily heal as quickly in and out of battles.

Example:
FPE crew 200, heals roughly 18% per minute in battle, 100 per minute outside of battle

AC crew 800, heals about 60-68% per minute in battle, 190 per minute outside of battle
OK, so with two cruiser options, where I'll be using Engineering team, aux to structural, EPtS, RSP, and HE constantly, think a lower crew would hurt me?
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,590
# 4
10-04-2012, 10:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by djf021 View Post
OK, so with two cruiser options, where I'll be using Engineering team, aux to structural, EPtS, RSP, and HE constantly, think a lower crew would hurt me?
Well your crew doesn't affect your cds, and honestly in combat your passive healing usually doesn't matter because it takes time to heal up, and if you're under attack constantly, torps will often get rid of most of your crew pretty quickly, which then negates this whole thing. But since you will be in a cruiser, I think they have naturally higher passive hull recovery anyways.

But to answer your question, no, I don't think a smaller crew will hurt you much.

I personally think it really depends on the ship. For example, from what I have heard, the Oddy, Atrox, Recluse, Neggy, and a lot of the other cruisers and carriers take forever and day plus most of next week to kill due to very powerful shields, strong hulls, and a good recovery rate, whereas escorts don't seem to have as high a base recovery rate, but I attribute that to ship class, not crew. From personal experience, I know that my cruisers have higher hull recovery than my escorts and raptors.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Why the Devs can't make PvE content harder. <--- DR proved me wrong!
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,411
# 5
10-04-2012, 11:57 PM
THe crew makes the most difference in a regen build. The higher the passive healing the better. You can then mix that in with the 2 and 3 set bonuses from the borg and then you will start to see it better. Finally once you add certain consoles into the mix the better. Some of the best regen ships are ones like the Sci oddy or the fleet nebula that give you 4 eng consoles and 4 sci consoles.

For example I have an eng in my fleet nebula. I have the following on it.

[Assimilated Deflector Array]
[Assimilated Subtranswarp Engines]
[M.A.C.O. Resilient Shield Array Mk XII]

Eng
[Console - Engineering - Neutronium Alloy Mk XI]
[Console - Universal - Assimilated Module]
[Console - Engineering - Emergency Force Fields Mk XI]
[Console - Engineering - SIF Generator Mk XI]

Sci
[Console - Science - Emitter Array Mk XI]
[Console - Science - Shield Emitter Amplifier Mk XI]
[Console - Science - Biofunction Monitor Mk XII]
[Console - Science - Field Generator Mk XI]

Since both the sci oddy and the nebula have a higher shield modifier they do not need a second Field Generator.

Since they amount of heal on the regen build is low we need to do 2 things. 1) increase it. 2) Decrease the taken damage.

The Emergency Force Fields keeps your crew alive longer and the Biofunction Monitor revives them keeping you crew alive most of the time meaning better healing in combat.

The Shield Emitter Amplifier increases your shield regen rate. Emitter Array make your shield heals larger and this includes heals like the borg 3 piece set bonus.

SIF GeneratorImprove hull repair so when you use a hull heal like aux2sif or the 2 piece borg bonus it is also larger.

Next thing you need to do is reduce the damage you are taking. Buffs like tss and aux2sif increase your damage resistance. These damage resistances on these move increase with aux power levels.

With an Aux power level of 89/50
Aux2sif2 35.4 damage resist
he2 24.7 damage resist
tts1 11 damage resist

With points in treat control, armor reinforcements and hull plating my resistance starts at 21% for kinetic and energy damage types. The Neutronium Alloy bring it up to 30.3%. Aux2sif on top make it 43% and with he on top it brings it up to 48.9%

Even though it is possible to bring up resistances further the regen rate combine with it makes it enough.

These move may have a lower healing capacity they are not meant to full the health but supplement the ships ability. Remember if you health is already at capacity then you ship is not regenerating and therefor has no advantage.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,015
# 6
10-05-2012, 07:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by djf021 View Post
I'm looking for a cruiser SOLELY for PVP tanking.
I would submit for your consideration the belief held by many knowledgeable PvPers that tanking does not exist in STO PvP. If you mean healing, that is present. The idea that someone will serve the primary purpose of absorbing damage is not really accurate. There is no holding aggro against thinking opponents, with the possible exception of taunting in zone chat.

That said, here's all you need to know about cruisers.

http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...d.php?t=379591
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 377
# 7
10-05-2012, 09:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by redricky View Post
I would submit for your consideration the belief held by many knowledgeable PvPers that tanking does not exist in STO PvP. If you mean healing, that is present. The idea that someone will serve the primary purpose of absorbing damage is not really accurate. There is no holding aggro against thinking opponents, with the possible exception of taunting in zone chat.

That said, here's all you need to know about cruisers.

http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...d.php?t=379591
What I really meant was keep me alive as long as possible in a cruiser lol. I admit I'm not the greatest PVPer. I'm getting better, but still have a lot of improving to do. However, I have found that my favorite vessel class is cruiser, I love tanking in Elite STFs. And I realize my best chance for survival in PVP will also be in a cruiser, so I'm looking for one that will help me do that best.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 135
# 8
10-05-2012, 12:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by redricky View Post
I would submit for your consideration the belief held by many knowledgeable PvPers that tanking does not exist in STO PvP. If you mean healing, that is present. The idea that someone will serve the primary purpose of absorbing damage is not really accurate. There is no holding aggro against thinking opponents, with the possible exception of taunting in zone chat.

That said, here's all you need to know about cruisers.

http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...d.php?t=379591
/agree. Crusiers used to be able to tank in PVP, before all the DPS adds and the NERFs at the skill-box revamps, RSP, healing, etc. Then, it was common to have a team focus you, you live thru it, and then they go on to some1 else that was more of the "easy kill". Now? Crusiers are target #1, as they melt in all the DPS, they "wallow around like a garbage scow up against a warp driven starship", and even the "get the flock outta dodge" buttons can't really keep up with a good escort with full engine power.

I no longer PVP hardly ever in my excel with a tac flying it, and it used to be my main toon. The eng in the "fleet patrol escort" does way better at PVP gameplay. And, now, I'm bringing up a Alien tac just for PVP. If you can't beat em (via Cryptic's poor designs), join em. And this toon will be flying the typ P2W escort.

It will take a re-design of the game DPS/healing/resists to be able to 'tank" again in PVP. We can't do that via builds, only Cryptic development can.

Last edited by esquire1980; 10-05-2012 at 12:08 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,040
# 9
10-05-2012, 03:02 PM
Crew is pretty much a worthless stat to be honest. In combat the passive hull heal is hardly noticable and out of combat it's not needed. Prior to season 1.2 it would have had an effect on engineering team, but not now. This is why you'll find that the majority of long time PvPers don't bother with crew preserving consoles.

So, basically, just ignore the crew stat.
Previously Alendiak
Daizen - Lvl 52 Engineer - Eclipse
Selia - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,628
# 10
10-05-2012, 03:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by robdmc View Post
THe crew makes the most difference in a regen build.
Maybe but is borked when it goes over 1000 crew, the Odyssey and any ship that have over 100 crew usually lose half its crew in the opening round.
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