Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 9,068
# 21
10-08-2012, 07:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dassemsto View Post
I also have a Gorn, and I would be be positive to the devs locking the traits to 2-ground 2-space.
Even though I tend to run Aliens, I'd have to agree that it should be locked to 2+2. 4-spacing it, is something that I'm generally guilty of...since outside of leveling a toon or grinding something, I'm almost always in space. Folks that don't do that, well - they're likely to build a more balanced toon.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,916
# 22
10-08-2012, 08:21 AM
So why not just increase the total number of traits to 8, with a max of 4 per category (ground/space).
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 9,068
# 23
10-08-2012, 09:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sophlogimo View Post
So why not just increase the total number of traits to 8, with a max of 4 per category (ground/space).
I believe players should have to weigh the advantages and disadvantages of their choices - though, I do not believe they should feel that they've screwed themselves in the end. If they can just take everything, well - then you're getting into munchkin gaming... I'm not a big fan of that in the least.
Banned
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 846
# 24
10-08-2012, 09:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
I believe players should have to weigh the advantages and disadvantages of their choices - though, I do not believe they should feel that they've screwed themselves in the end. If they can just take everything, well - then you're getting into munchkin gaming... I'm not a big fan of that in the least.
Meh there's alot more than 8 traits to pick from.

I'd be game for a 4 space 4 ground.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 9,068
# 25
10-08-2012, 10:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostyandfrosty View Post
Meh there's alot more than 8 traits to pick from.

I'd be game for a 4 space 4 ground.
An Alien has the following choices.

Space:

Accurate, Astrophysicist, Efficient Captain, Elusive, Techie, Warp Theorist

Ground:

Acute Senses, Aggressive, Cold Blooded, Covert, Creative, Lucky, Mental Discipline, Natural Immunities, Peak Health, Physical Strength, Resilient, Soldier, Stubborn, Sturdy, Sure Footed, Telekinetic, and Telepathic

That's 6 Space and 17 Ground.

Yes, there are more than 8 traits to select. There are only 6 Space though.

You're championing that a player not have to sacrifice anything (ie Ground) by going 4 Space. They'd take the 4 Space they do now and pick up 4 Ground.

It's munchkin gaming.

I laughed like most when Tim Allen would grunt and add more power to something. I don't laugh when games go munchkin though...it's tedious and boring, imo.
Banned
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 846
# 26
10-08-2012, 10:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
An Alien has the following choices.

Space:

Accurate, Astrophysicist, Efficient Captain, Elusive, Techie, Warp Theorist

Ground:

Acute Senses, Aggressive, Cold Blooded, Covert, Creative, Lucky, Mental Discipline, Natural Immunities, Peak Health, Physical Strength, Resilient, Soldier, Stubborn, Sturdy, Sure Footed, Telekinetic, and Telepathic

That's 6 Space and 17 Ground.

Yes, there are more than 8 traits to select. There are only 6 Space though.

You're championing that a player not have to sacrifice anything (ie Ground) by going 4 Space. They'd take the 4 Space they do now and pick up 4 Ground.

It's munchkin gaming.

I laughed like most when Tim Allen would grunt and add more power to something. I don't laugh when games go munchkin though...it's tedious and boring, imo.
Who cares about Ground? Seriously. Your Spec matters far more than your trait selection does. A space toon will even post f2p still Blow Ass on the ground. A ground toon will still Suckith The Big One in Space.

Honestly the idea that forcing people to spend 60k min on the ground would "normalize" pvp builds was a laughable one. I told them that before I left last year in October, alot of us did. And guess what they did? Did it anyway saying we were wrong, and lo and behold we were right. Not only were we right, they in addition never fixed the now Broken Trait System.

The thing having 4 space traits and 4 ground on All toons would fix is the massive Failing cryptic did of several races by giving them forced lolground traits. The most optimal race is Alien or Joined Trill. In the case of the former you skin it to resemble the race you want to be and give it the good traits. Really there's no point what so ever in picking anything else.

Last edited by ghostyandfrosty; 10-08-2012 at 10:52 AM.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,530
# 27
10-08-2012, 11:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostyandfrosty View Post
Meh there's alot more than 8 traits to pick from.

I'd be game for a 4 space 4 ground.
+1 *brought to you by this weeks instahlment of "we sometimes agree on things "*
Joined 06.10
PvP 2010-2011
PvP 2012-2013
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 176
# 28
10-08-2012, 12:24 PM
4 space and 4 ground sounds nice to my ears but 2 space and 2 ground would just be a pointless bit of aggravation. Everyone would just take the only two space skills that are noticeable.

That said, ground traits are more powerful than space traits but ground combat isn't a big focus for your average STO player. If it was we'd see more c-store bridge officers, more c-store personal equipment and devices, not a constant stream of new ships.

Edit: If they put out a chainsword, PowerSledge, Spacemarine armor, Flamethrower or some of the old borg gear as c-store items I might have to invest.

Last edited by razellis; 10-08-2012 at 12:35 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 9,068
# 29
10-08-2012, 01:12 PM
The discussion makes me think of the following scene at a toy store...

Mother: You can pick one toy.
Child: But mommy!
Mother: Just one.
Child: I want two.
Mother: One.
Child: No.
Mother: Okay then.
Child: What?
Mother: You get none.
Child: No!
Mother: You had your chance.
Child: I want one.
Mother: Which one?
Child: This one.
Mother: And?
Child: Thank you.
Mother: You're welcome.

Some people went through that as a child and learned about having to make choices. Some people did not.

edit: BTW, this is not calling anybody childish - it's just the earliest example of "choice" that I can think of...cake or pie for dessert was another.

Last edited by virusdancer; 10-08-2012 at 02:08 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,916
# 30
10-08-2012, 11:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
I believe players should have to weigh the advantages and disadvantages of their choices - though, I do not believe they should feel that they've screwed themselves in the end. If they can just take everything, well - then you're getting into munchkin gaming... I'm not a big fan of that in the least.
Well, adding a few more space traits is certainly required, judging by the importance of space vs. ground combat to most players of STO. But people should not be feeling screwed just because they play a Gorn, for a prominent example. (Even though, as described earlier, I can testify that the traits don't tip the balance that much, it is still an uneasy feeling to look at the trait selection.)
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