Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 264
# 41
10-07-2012, 01:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by falloutx23 View Post
This guy goes into the doctor with a broken leg. He start freaking out when he sees the doctor pull out a small sledge hammer. When he asks what the hell its for, the doctor says he's going to break the other leg to keep him balanced. The guy tells him why not just fix my broken leg, but the doctor tells him maybe later when he has the time. For now, just breaking the other leg will be faster.
Sounds like the apparent logic.
Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 264
# 42
10-07-2012, 01:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by husanakx View Post
/Roll a Sci

Problem solved.
No, that solves nothing. It would provide me with the one shot buff removal, however, it does not solve the problem for other people who don't choose to re-roll as a Sci captain.

Also, if everyone made this choice then the entire populace would be Sci captains just because of this silly problem.

I don't expect any thing to change regarding this problem, to be honest. I am quite jaded at this point. But, I suppose, perhaps, it is possible... at some future time when there is another skill re-work.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 668
# 43
10-07-2012, 01:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by freedumb4eva View Post
Husanak offered obvious solutions... "Get a better team." This problem that I am having is not about that. Even in a, "Good team," situation, the only saving grace to killing a target with stacked mitigation is to SubNuc them... this is bad.
Why is this bad ? Please explain that one. lol

In every MMO ever made...
if you go into a team pvp game with out a healer you get wasted hard.
if you go into a team pvp game and the other team has a good debuffer and you don't you get wasted hard.
if you go into a team pvp game with out enough dps you get wasted hard.

Why is it so hard to accept that you need to bring a well rounded team.

Is subnuke anymore powerful then attack pattern alpha? I don't think so.

Also I don't know how many high end pvp games you have been in but... a subnuke is no guarantee of a kill either. A good team will throw some more buffs on the subnuke victim and sci team the cool down spike off... and roll on like nothing happened.

Even Subnukes need to be timed properly.

I really don't mean this to sound rude... but your complaining about a game you don't understand.

Subnuke is a captain skill... anything even remotely similer to its effects should stay that way. YOU HAVE TO BRING A sci to do well in high end pvp .... that is not flawed design.

For the same reasons I hate the new Nadion like DEM doff... it steps on the toes of the engi captain and that doff should never have been created either.

Captian powers are unique and should be powerful enough and IMPORTANT enough to a team that no doff should in anyway get even close to replacing them.

Doffs in general need a few small tweeks...
Shield distros need there numbers cut in half.
SunNuke doffs need either to be deleted or be dialed back in a major way.
The DEM doff although not that great cause frankly nadion isn't that great.. shouldn't exist.

Ourside of those issues the doffs are an interesting add to the pvp meta game and are fine.

As far as stacking mitigation... Believe it or not I think it is 100% fine as it is. Yes if you get an extends from the team healer, a hazards and transfer shield strength from the team sci.. and a tac team and delta from the team escort... YOU SHOULD BE UNKILLABLE. Switch freaking targets people. Stop focusing on one target all the time. All the squawking about mitigation comes from people that haven't seemed to figure out how to switch targets and how to fake out heals. Its part of the game and a fun part at that.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 273
# 44
10-07-2012, 02:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by levi3 View Post
I heard that but I did not notice anything in description that mentioned subnuke - maybe I missed it.

Do they help at all against PvE npc's? For my sci toon will they do anything against the borg?
They might knock a Borg FAW or HYT off now and again and can take out their fast shield-redistribute/regen ability, but to be honest, you're not gonna see much use out of them in PvE. They are not worth the 20 mil per DOff price for PvE, to be frank. They're actually yet another case of an item or power being underpowered/weak in PvE and overpowered/lulzy in PvP.

If you're having trouble with content or simply looking for ways to maximize your current Ship/Captain's ability to go through it, getting help with your BOff powers, consoles, and gear is a much better place to start and will pay out big in the long run.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 668
# 45
10-07-2012, 02:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by freedumb4eva View Post
No, that solves nothing. It would provide me with the one shot buff removal, however, it does not solve the problem for other people who don't choose to re-roll as a Sci captain.
It was a joke... my point is there is a hard counter in the game to stacking buffs. Its called subnuke... no we can't all roll sci. Trust me if a team of 5 sci showed up against out premade we would spank them hard.

I really don't understand why people think we should be able to all roll tacs and be fine in pvp.

Its a team game...

Think of STO pvp as a game of chess....

However in this type of chess... the pieces on each side can be changed slightly... you don't have to have the same setup each time....

Now in this game imagine if you loaded nothing but knights on one side... how well do you think you would do against a traditional chess setup on the other side ?

Yes a good team really needs one of each captain type... how is that bad game design ?
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,642
# 46
10-07-2012, 02:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by corsair114 View Post
They might knock a Borg FAW or HYT off now and again and can take out their fast shield-redistribute/regen ability, but to be honest, you're not gonna see much use out of them in PvE. They are not worth the 20 mil per DOff price for PvE, to be frank. They're actually yet another case of an item or power being underpowered/weak in PvE and overpowered/lulzy in PvP.

If you're having trouble with content or simply looking for ways to maximize your current Ship/Captain's ability to go through it, getting help with your BOff powers, consoles, and gear is a much better place to start and will pay out big in the long run.
thanks. I am not a PvPer and don't plan to be so I will ignore the sub.
Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 264
# 47
10-07-2012, 03:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by husanakx View Post
It was a joke... my point is there is a hard counter in the game to stacking buffs. Its called subnuke... no we can't all roll sci. Trust me if a team of 5 sci showed up against out premade we would spank them hard.

I really don't understand why people think we should be able to all roll tacs and be fine in pvp.

Its a team game...

Think of STO pvp as a game of chess....

However in this type of chess... the pieces on each side can be changed slightly... you don't have to have the same setup each time....

Now in this game imagine if you loaded nothing but knights on one side... how well do you think you would do against a traditional chess setup on the other side ?

Yes a good team really needs one of each captain type... how is that bad game design ?
I understand what you are saying, however, a pre-made is always going to stomp a pub... that is not the issue.

The comparison that you are making between STO PVP and a game of chess is just strange... STO PVP is not like chess because both sides in the match never begin on equal grounds.

If STO PVP were like a game of chess, when a pawn attempted to take another pawn, a knight would put up 2 buffs onto the pawn, the pawn would buff itself, and the capturing pawn would be like, "WTF, no matter what I do I can't take a piece because all of the other pieces buff and heal it!" Then, the only recourse would be some type of buff strip... this is bad.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 597
# 48
10-07-2012, 03:16 PM
freedumb4eva

im really not sure what you are on about. healing really isent all that op to need uber doffs. if you cant kill your stacked target maybe take all look at your own buld and what your team is doing. could just be 1 massive combo of p2w consoles. or the sdo. as it was said focus fire used to be the best option. maybe if you tryed to switch to the healer and kill him you would be better off then the 1 escourt that just got all the heals from the healer and possby few from the team. many times im in pvp pug and an escourt could be in trouble and the healer combined with me (escourt) will send out heals as well. if you see the healer send the target all its heals just switch to him. healing is not op. its team work that is op.

what is the problem is that healers dont get aux drain so they pump wep power past 125 for thoes 8 beams. maybe if other classes got system drain like tacts it would blance everything out better.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 50
# 49
10-07-2012, 03:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by husanakx View Post
Why is this bad ? Please explain that one. lol

In every MMO ever made...
if you go into a team pvp game with out a healer you get wasted hard.
if you go into a team pvp game and the other team has a good debuffer and you don't you get wasted hard.
if you go into a team pvp game with out enough dps you get wasted hard.

Why is it so hard to accept that you need to bring a well rounded team.

Is subnuke anymore powerful then attack pattern alpha? I don't think so.

Also I don't know how many high end pvp games you have been in but... a subnuke is no guarantee of a kill either. A good team will throw some more buffs on the subnuke victim and sci team the cool down spike off... and roll on like nothing happened.

Even Subnukes need to be timed properly.

I really don't mean this to sound rude... but your complaining about a game you don't understand.

Subnuke is a captain skill... anything even remotely similer to its effects should stay that way. YOU HAVE TO BRING A sci to do well in high end pvp .... that is not flawed design.

For the same reasons I hate the new Nadion like DEM doff... it steps on the toes of the engi captain and that doff should never have been created either.

Captian powers are unique and should be powerful enough and IMPORTANT enough to a team that no doff should in anyway get even close to replacing them.

Doffs in general need a few small tweeks...
Shield distros need there numbers cut in half.
SunNuke doffs need either to be deleted or be dialed back in a major way.
The DEM doff although not that great cause frankly nadion isn't that great.. shouldn't exist.

Ourside of those issues the doffs are an interesting add to the pvp meta game and are fine.

As far as stacking mitigation... Believe it or not I think it is 100% fine as it is. Yes if you get an extends from the team healer, a hazards and transfer shield strength from the team sci.. and a tac team and delta from the team escort... YOU SHOULD BE UNKILLABLE. Switch freaking targets people. Stop focusing on one target all the time. All the squawking about mitigation comes from people that haven't seemed to figure out how to switch targets and how to fake out heals. Its part of the game and a fun part at that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by husanakx View Post
It was a joke... my point is there is a hard counter in the game to stacking buffs. Its called subnuke... no we can't all roll sci. Trust me if a team of 5 sci showed up against out premade we would spank them hard.

I really don't understand why people think we should be able to all roll tacs and be fine in pvp.

Its a team game...

Think of STO pvp as a game of chess....

However in this type of chess... the pieces on each side can be changed slightly... you don't have to have the same setup each time....

Now in this game imagine if you loaded nothing but knights on one side... how well do you think you would do against a traditional chess setup on the other side ?

Yes a good team really needs one of each captain type... how is that bad game design ?
These two posts win this debate, forever.
I absolutely LOVE the nearly infinite combinations and specialized builds out there, the resulting counters to their implementation, and the full team tactics needed to deal with all of it. This game would be drop dead boring without them.

Last edited by feargan; 10-07-2012 at 03:38 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 668
# 50
10-07-2012, 04:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by freedumb4eva View Post
I understand what you are saying, however, a pre-made is always going to stomp a pub... that is not the issue.

The comparison that you are making between STO PVP and a game of chess is just strange... STO PVP is not like chess because both sides in the match never begin on equal grounds.

If STO PVP were like a game of chess, when a pawn attempted to take another pawn, a knight would put up 2 buffs onto the pawn, the pawn would buff itself, and the capturing pawn would be like, "WTF, no matter what I do I can't take a piece because all of the other pieces buff and heal it!" Then, the only recourse would be some type of buff strip... this is bad.
You are right chess isn't the most logical comparison...

However you logic is still wrong... you are right if you are shooting at a target and he gets buffs from the other pieces... WHY ARE YOU STILL SHOOTING AT HIM. I think what you are saying is the knight just blew his cool downs saving the pawn... switch targets to the knight and kill him... I can tell you that the pawn is in no position to help him, and he just threw his own heals saving the pawn....

I don't see the situation of the pawn being untouchable for 15-30 seconds as an issue... I see it as in order to protect him that much an opportunity just opened somewhere else.

Your point is what makes the best premades the best... and other premades bad. Any premade can focus target kill most pugs yes.... most pugs don't have the will or the teamwork to save focus targets... However premades DO. Its at that point that you need to go into the next gear and save buffs... fake targets... rapid switch all over the place... basicly try your hardest to force the other team to burn there buffs saving one guy... and then saving enough of your own offensive buffs so you can rapid switch and take down the real target...

That is what makes STO pvp great... no you don't see that level of play vs pugs.. cause honestly its not needed... lazy focus fire is good enough against pugs... even in a pug if you see someone has an extend on them.... why the heck are you still shooting at them ?
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