Specialist
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,033
# 31
10-12-2012, 11:11 PM
I asked myself that long and hard before getting a fleet ship using 4 modules. Took me a while to get those, too. Bought 2, used dilithium exchange to get 2 more.

Those modules I agonized over. I could sell them and make more ECs than I've ever had on any character, or squander them for a 1-time, character-only, unlock of a ship only slightly better than the one I already had.....


In the end my own personal love of the K'Tinga looks outweighed the price. I spent the modules for the F K'tinga. However on my other KDF I just did the K'Tinga Retro for 200k FCs instead. It wasn't worth it again.

So the question really is, do you love the torkhat so much that you really MUST have that one ship and will continue to use it even as you unlock better tiers later? If yes, then it is worth it. If you're just looking for a ship upgrade from what you've got go for a ship that requires no modules. Save the modules for Tier5 later on.


In summary: No the module ships are NOT worth it unless you've only been looking forward to that one ship this entire time and MUST absolutely have it and you know this with all your heart. Otherwise don't spend them.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,203
# 32
10-13-2012, 12:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodentmaster View Post
So the question really is, do you love the torkhat so much that you really MUST have that one ship and will continue to use it even as you unlock better tiers later? If yes, then it is worth it. If you're just looking for a ship upgrade from what you've got go for a ship that requires no modules. Save the modules for Tier5 later on.


In summary: No the module ships are NOT worth it unless you've only been looking forward to that one ship this entire time and MUST absolutely have it and you know this with all your heart. Otherwise don't spend them.
I think the Fleet Tor'kaht is well worth the modules and 20K FC. There's nothing in the higher shipyard tiers directly comparable to the Tor'kaht but 'better'. The higher tiers just unlock more variety, they are not intrinsically more powerful in all categories. The tiers aren't 'better' unless you're looking for a specific ship. Though, looking for a specific ship that you might want otherwise is something to keep in mind.

The question is more if those modules are worth $20 to you, as you can earn up the Zen via Dil trade-ins and you can buy the modules on the exchange with EC(usually around 5 Mil each). I paid around $10 each real money for the two fleet ships I have.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 817
# 33
10-14-2012, 09:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodentmaster View Post
I have to point out that you're going to do a lot more damage if you switch to dual cannons or dual heavy cannons. I have done DBB builds and they can be fun, but you can't match the damage of DHCs on front of a battlecruiser.
True, if you have CRF3/CSV3. This ship has LTC as top tac spot so only CRF2/CSV2 can be used, but with beams, FaW3 or BO3 can be equipped.

Doing some math (all stats sourced from STO wiki):
MKXII Dual Cannon DPS = 256
MKXII DBB DPS = 229
MKXII turret DPS = 132

CSV2 = +20% DPS
FaW3 = +40% DPS

So:
4 Dual cannons + 2 turrets using CSV2 = 1545.6 dps
4 DBB using FaW3 + 2 turrets = 1546.4 dps

So when buffed they can easily match dual cannon DPS output. Sure unbuffed I loose out but range and firing arc isn't as much an issue with these.

Yes if you're running all turrets rear you'd be better off, but I'm using dual mines to go with my play style. So in my particular case, no I'm not loosing much dps.

In fact if turrets weren't in the equation at all 4xDBBs with FaW3 will out DPS DHCs with CSV3.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rodentmaster View Post
Further, by sticking to ONE type (either cannons OR beams) you ensure that your boff skills work on both at the same time. So CRF will also work on your forward firing turrets, as will CSV. If you insist upon DBBs up front (it's a loss in firepower) FAW will benefit from you having beam arrays in the aft. This lessens your alpha strike but increases overall firing capabilities. You can still give a good load of damage when not pointed at it (and with turrets you're not doing much damage firing at something behind you).
Yeah but with the vorchas manoeuvrability and DBBs getting my target in firing arc isn't much of an issue. Plus in PvE you can get enemies in fore firing arc easy, so wanted extra fore DPS which only turrets can provide.

I'm an engineer, I don't have pattern alpha.

I might give beams aft a go, will diminish forward facing DPS though. Although power draw from rear weapons will be 0 so that'll boost fore weapons a little bit more to compensate a tad I guess. Will try it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rodentmaster View Post
FAW isn't the skill you want with DBBs. You want Beam Overload. Mount BO3 and demote FAW to FAW1. FAW is more limited in use, akin to scatter volley. When you're pounding just one target you want it to go down fast. Also if you mount ANY of the dispersal patterns you'll get more than 1 tricobalt mine per drop. First rank, 2 mines, second 3 mines, 3rd 4 mines. That way you can mount more energy weapons and still retain your mine output. This also can help because sometimes the first mine will catch a bit of shields and not do full damage, but the second mine following it will definitely hit hull!
As mentioned previously I only PvE. FaW3 is far more useful buffed than a one shot that drains weapons by 50 causing the next volley to be underpowered. Plus, vs a single target you still get a DPS buff. I'm an engy that can't alpha so burst damage isn't that important to me.

Plus being tanky I WANT to aggro the NPC masses, so yes I think FaW is the skill I want.

Totally agree with mines, I did mention I used DPB1....
2x tric mine launchers with DPB1 = 4 mines a minute. And the 1-2 combo as you say is great. Doing the same thing on my Vet ship but with DPB3 (8 mines per minute), 4 tric mines = insta pop on all but the biggest of NPC ships. (often multiple kills per buffed mine drop too)
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Specialist
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,033
# 34
10-15-2012, 05:41 PM
I've done a lot of the math on my escort that I set up to run beams. To head off all the escort pilots that are shrieking right now, I KNOW it's not the most I can get out of it. I'm seeing what best I can get from beams. It's an experiment.

Running high power is the key. As you say BO drains power, but for me only seems to drain it 50% when I am running max power to weapons.

My phaser DBB XI [acc] [crth] [dmg] does 288 dps stock, at stock power. Put my power up to 106, and the same bank is doing 834 dps.

Run TacTeam1 and that goes up to 854 dps. That's not even counting BO3 yet!


The thing is that cannons will definitely out-DPS DBBs. I have a build with a DHC mk XII AP borg in it. It's XII but the "stock" dps is very similar to what you posted. Putting my power in weapons bank to 108 (as close as I could get to my 106 number above), it listed 985 dps. Running tac team1 made that 1008, and then triggering CRF1 (the lowest rank) boosted that to 1281 dps.

DHCs crit more, they hit harder, and they output more than DBBs. I do have fun with my DBBs, as I said, but the numbers don't add up to an equal parity with each other. DHCs and DCs are superior. By a long shot.

As for burst power -- it's still power. A good burst spike with BO3 gets me 30k crits many times. It's quite common, actually. That all adds up. You might take a small power dive after it, but within a second you're back to normal. That's worth it for such a massive spike.

That's like not loading torp spread because it's only for burst damge... Well, so? Burst damage is good! Then return to sustained damage!
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 891
# 35
10-25-2012, 03:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cliftona91 View Post
Do you think the Fleet Torkaht is worth the same investment of $20 USD?

More than any other ship in the game.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,591
# 36
10-25-2012, 04:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xantris View Post
More than any other ship in the game.
Definitely. I fly one. I love it. It has NO weaknesses. It's freakin awesome.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Why the Devs can't make PvE content harder. <--- DR proved me wrong!
Specialist
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,033
# 37
10-25-2012, 12:39 PM
I'm just wondering why they called it a vor'cha when it's not a vor'cha at all. The vor'cha shares the same fed cruiser setup of 1 CMDR eng, 1 LtCDR eng, for cross-eng tanking skills. This is also found on the k'tinga retro + fleet retro. As much as I love that K'tinga, sometimes I want those extra boff slots.

So why did they make such a drastic boff change on this fleet version? The Torkaht was a skin for the vor'cha, not a new ship.

I'd much rather the K'Tinga and the Tor'kaht share the SAME boff setup. What I'd do is make the LtCDR be universal so you can run it as eng or tac depending on if you want to be a tank or an attacker. Maybe the ENS and the LtCDR both be universal, as on some fleet ships on fed side.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 891
# 38
10-26-2012, 01:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodentmaster View Post
I'm just wondering why they called it a vor'cha when it's not a vor'cha at all. The vor'cha shares the same fed cruiser setup of 1 CMDR eng, 1 LtCDR eng, for cross-eng tanking skills. This is also found on the k'tinga retro + fleet retro. As much as I love that K'tinga, sometimes I want those extra boff slots.

So why did they make such a drastic boff change on this fleet version? The Torkaht was a skin for the vor'cha, not a new ship.

I'd much rather the K'Tinga and the Tor'kaht share the SAME boff setup. What I'd do is make the LtCDR be universal so you can run it as eng or tac depending on if you want to be a tank or an attacker. Maybe the ENS and the LtCDR both be universal, as on some fleet ships on fed side.


Boff layout changes are relatively common in Fleet variants, the Tor'Kaht isn't unique in this respect. I don't see the point in giving two separate battlecruisers the same boff layout.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 249
# 39
10-26-2012, 02:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodentmaster View Post
I'm just wondering why they called it a vor'cha when it's not a vor'cha at all. The vor'cha shares the same fed cruiser setup of 1 CMDR eng, 1 LtCDR eng, for cross-eng tanking skills. This is also found on the k'tinga retro + fleet retro. As much as I love that K'tinga, sometimes I want those extra boff slots.

So why did they make such a drastic boff change on this fleet version? The Torkaht was a skin for the vor'cha, not a new ship.

I'd much rather the K'Tinga and the Tor'kaht share the SAME boff setup. What I'd do is make the LtCDR be universal so you can run it as eng or tac depending on if you want to be a tank or an attacker. Maybe the ENS and the LtCDR both be universal, as on some fleet ships on fed side.
The Tor'kaht is just what the Vor'cha should have been from the start. A Klingon attack cruiser.


All I need now is a heavy beem array to put on it and it resembles Gowrons BortaS.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,203
# 40
10-26-2012, 02:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodentmaster View Post
I'm just wondering why they called it a vor'cha when it's not a vor'cha at all. The vor'cha shares the same fed cruiser setup of 1 CMDR eng, 1 LtCDR eng, for cross-eng tanking skills. This is also found on the k'tinga retro + fleet retro. As much as I love that K'tinga, sometimes I want those extra boff slots.

So why did they make such a drastic boff change on this fleet version? The Torkaht was a skin for the vor'cha, not a new ship.
The Fleet Tor'kaht seems to have been intended to counter the Regent Assault Cruiser on Fed side, which has a similar re-mix BOff slots in trading Eng for Tac as well. There was a Fleet version of the Assualt Cruiser on Tribble prior to the Fleet Advancement System going live on Holodeck with the same BOff layout as the Fleet Tor'Kaht, but it hasn't been brought back yet.
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