Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,531
# 141
10-09-2012, 03:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mewi View Post
The battle cloak is a laugh, in terms of balance here. Ignoring that for a second, lets discuss the balance difference between these two ships as if there were no other ships in the game. So Equal Pilots, KDF has battle cloak, and FED has .067 more shield modifier, who do you think will win? Federation ship should get more, if you insist on giving KDF ship a battle cloak.



You only pop in a forum to give a positive twist in favor of cryptic, whenever someone is speaking negatively, I can't even think of a time you've come in to say something unrelated to cryptic that wasn't defending them outright...........

But who knows, maybe I'm wrong, and you do post about other stuff... perhaps someone can vouch you here.
If the new ship had the turn rate of the Jem'Hadar Attackship, I'd maybe be in agreement. But it's not nearly as powerful of an escort. I mean thankfully they are giving a non bop/squishy ship a battle cloak. But that makes me wonder how they are going to help the BoP Who's life support just got cut with the introduction of this ship...who's only nitch, besides full Universal Consoles, was it's Battle Cloak (Or Enhanced Battle cloak for the B'rel-R)
You think that your beta test was bad?
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 609
# 142
10-09-2012, 03:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeuxidemus001 View Post
Not attacking you in any shape or form but everything you said can be contradicted in the stowiki or shipyard on qo'nos. As well the information you provided on squishy and shield modifiers is bogus info too. The lower shield modifier in fact is due to the perk of Dual Cannons vs feds not being able to mount them on most of their cruisers. KDF gets those mountable but they get a lower shield modifier in its stead. As for being squishy you are refering to the 30k on a b'rel vs the 40k this new raptor will give. As far as them being squishy they will both not have any shields while integrating into cloak which that is what truely makes them squishy but a good player will bring enough defense for that to not be a problem.

It is just a matter of someone trying to impose a nerf on the KDF from a federation point of view. As far as the KDF getting the better deal... look around the KDF hasn't gotten much of anything all year so your logic and statements are seriously flawed.
Contradictory in what way? You aren't making any sense.... Lower shield modifier due to the dual cannons vs feds CRUISERS not being able to mount them on most their cruisers perk? What...? What the heck does that have to do with this?

Actually yes, there is .067 shield modifier difference? I never argued that battle cloak helped their shields? I argued that I'd gladly sacrifice .067 shield modifier FOR a battle cloak? and the KDF 1000 day does have a battle cloak? and your logic, is seriously flawed, you don't even do the basic hull mathematics vs percentile from non battlecloak ships correctly. There is a huge margin difference between a KDF ship with just "Cloak" and a BoP with Battle Cloak, or even Enhanced Battle Cloak.

Not to mention, Station Slots, Console Slots, and Weapon Slots............ DO I NEED TO GO ON HERE?

So where is your so called logic in that?

Imposing KDF nerf from a federation point of view? uh, no, imposing a balance issue from an OBVIOUS point of view...
ayeayeayeaye

| Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |

Last edited by mewi; 10-09-2012 at 03:35 PM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,905
# 143
10-09-2012, 03:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by obsidiusrex View Post
If you don't agree with someone, you must work for the enemy! It's a (false) dilemma! If you aren't with us, you're with the terro... err, Cryptic! Ad hominem FTW!
Naw, I work for the Russians

But seriously, I prefer to simply play STO, browse these forums from time-to-time to see what's new, and react based on what I find. I also prefer to stand apart from most arguments

And for the record, the only money I've spent on STO was a LTS a little under 2 years ago. And it's well payed off now, so anything that's added to the game is just a bonus to me. And if I lose benefits, I don't mind, as I still played plenty to make the purchase worth it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mewi View Post
Imposing KDF nerf from a federation point of view? uh, no, imposing a balance issue from an OBVIOUS point of view... ayeayeayeaye
Obvious to you, maybe. Not neccesarily to everyone else.

That's all I wish to say
Was named Trek17, but still an author.

Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh'.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 368
# 144
10-09-2012, 03:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeuxidemus001 View Post
Not attacking you in any shape or form but everything you said can be contradicted in the stowiki or shipyard on qo'nos. As well the information you provided on squishy and shield modifiers is bogus info too. The lower shield modifier in fact is due to the perk of Dual Cannons vs feds not being able to mount them on most of their cruisers. KDF gets those mountable but they get a lower shield modifier in its stead. As for being squishy you are refering to the 30k on a b'rel vs the 40k this new raptor will give. As far as them being squishy they will both not have any shields while integrating into cloak which that is what truely makes them squishy but a good player will bring enough defense for that to not be a problem.

It is just a matter of someone trying to impose a nerf on the KDF from a federation point of view. As far as the KDF getting the better deal... look around the KDF hasn't gotten much of anything all year so your logic and statements are seriously flawed.
The only comparable ships that mount cannons KDF-side which do NOT mount cannons Fed side are Cruisers... and KDF Cruisers have the same shield modifiers on average. Compare an Assault Cruiser to a Negh'var... they're both 1.0. Raptors are equivalent to Escorts... which have always mounted cannons. The new Fed Destroyer, get this, mounts cannons. It's a tactical ship as noted by it's Commander slot. So why would you even bring up Cruisers, something we're not even dealing with...?

The only KDF ships that Battle Cloak are Birds-of-Prey (until now), and you'll notice they're all very, very squishy in order to make using it a dicey option. They in fact tend to have the lowest Hull in the game, far lower than Escorts or Raptors. In fact, even the FLEET versions of Birds-of-Prey, which I listed above, have lower Hull than this ship (one over 50% less, and the other near 30% less).

So your diatribe reflects... nothing. You're pulling stats from all over the place, with few actually referencing back to the point at hand.

Honestly, at this point I don't even know what to make of your posts. I'm tempted to think you're kidding with them...
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You'll have to forgive the Zeroes and Lowercase... Perfect World stole my Oh's and Capitals.
Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 471
# 145
10-09-2012, 03:38 PM
Give up Mewi. KDF players have spent so much time compaining they have things unfair they dont recognise when they are getting a good deal.

Its like getting them to admit something they have is OP. Its impossible. Even if they know it to be true anyone saying as much is a "Fed playing KDF hater".
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 609
# 146
10-09-2012, 03:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by seekerkorhil View Post
Give up Mewi. KDF players have spent so much time compaining they have things unfair they dont recognise when they are getting a good deal.

Its like getting them to admit something they have is OP. Its impossible. Even if they know it to be true anyone saying as much is a "Fed playing KDF hater".
Okay I will, because I know Cryptic wont do anything about it, so I'll just be preaching to the choir here

New To do List
  • 1. Cide into Sol Star,
  • 2. Evaporate,
  • 3. Rebirth as a Q
  • 4. Mess with Dan Stahl's Mind
  • 5. Sip tea while he attempts to complete the maze o.o

| Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |

Last edited by mewi; 10-09-2012 at 03:55 PM.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,531
# 147
10-09-2012, 03:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by seekerkorhil View Post
Give up Mewi. KDF players have spent so much time compaining they have things unfair they dont recognise when they are getting a good deal.

Its like getting them to admit something they have is OP. Its impossible. Even if they know it to be true anyone saying as much is a "Fed playing KDF hater".
I'd love to see this laundry list of what you feel is OP on the KDF side. Seriously. Please.
You think that your beta test was bad?
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,905
# 148
10-09-2012, 03:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by happyhappyj0yj0y View Post
The only comparable ships that mount cannons KDF-side which do NOT mount cannons Fed side are Cruisers... and KDF Cruisers have the same shield modifiers on average. Compare an Assault Cruiser to a Negh'var... they're both 1.0. Raptors are equivalent to Escorts... which have always mounted cannons. The new Fed Destroyer, get this, mounts cannons. It's a tactical ship as noted by it's Commander slot. So why would you even bring up Cruisers, something we're not even dealing with...?

The only KDF ships that Battle Cloak are Birds-of-Prey (until now), and you'll notice they're all very, very squishy in order to make using it a dicey option. They in fact tend to have the lowest Hull in the game, far lower than Escorts or Raptors. In fact, even the FLEET versions of Birds-of-Prey, which I listed above, have lower Hull than this ship (one over 50% less, and the other near 30% less).

So your diatribe reflects... nothing. You're pulling stats from all over the place, with few actually referencing back to the point at hand.

Honestly, at this point I don't even know what to make of your posts. I'm tempted to think you're kidding with them...
LOL, well there are certain ships yes but the federation point of view as with a little group on here I've found is determined in their small mental aptitude that those few KDF ships are lower shield modifiers because of cloak but ones the person was referring to mostly had to do with the DC/DHC's mounting where they were trying to misconstrue information to make it look justified when the person had no idea what they were talking about.

As for numbers a B'rel is around 30k, Heavy is about 32k, Raptors(including nausicaan ships are 40k-42k so its not a big deal of it having a battle cloak in terms of what it actually does is letting you cloak during battle after a 20 second cool down. Compared to most bops you have 8k-12k hull boost with a raptor which in most cases 1 or 2 extra torpedoes than usual and target is dead before they full reintegrate. In regards to squishy I will first say the KDF as Stahl explained many times the KDF is a small portion of the player base. Now that take most playerbases how you divvy them up only a small portion of them are adequate hardcore players. Then taking both of those into example you can say with positive knowledge that less than 5% of the player of the game can get into a BoP and master it without exploding every time they go into combat with them. For me I have so much practice in them you'll rarely see me explode in one. On that note as well I can probally count on one hand how many players out there that can do the same thing I can and its mostly based on the fact majority of the really good players out there do not play the KDF. For when I don't view them as squishy and that I see that its just 1 or 2 torpedos being fired more than needed for a B'rel it is not a huge advantage for this new KDF ship to have a battle cloak.

As well to point out an escort and a raptor are 2 different ships. Most fed only players who haven't played KDF much less a raptor usually have no idea what they are talking about. A raptor is in between an escort and a cruiser/heavy battle cruiser. They both have 4 weapons front and 3 rear. Usually have the same boff stations but the raptor turns much slower and has a bit more hull to represent its size.

In canon reference the only reasons bops usually have the battle cloak due to their size but even with canon after 40 years they could atleast have expanded to raptors or possibly the raptor could have always had them in the TNG/DS9 era due to we never actually saw a raptor.

So the stating of talking about escorts and cruisers in comparison it is because of the fact the original person stating we shouldnt have a battle cloak on these raptors was comparing information against the cruiser shield modifier deal and then comparing this new raptor to escorts when the raptor is neither an escort nor cruiser. A raptor is its own class in between the frame work of an escort and cruiser. I would just recommend that anyone trying to spit out stats trying to debate an issue go and make a KDF character and ACTUALLY look at these ships before typing information that is so far from the truth. Also I wish people would quit trying to compared bops to escorts because like raptors the KDF does not have anything that is an actual comparison to comparison of an escort. Bop=smaller, Raptor=Larger and escort is in between... I guess people actually have to want to understand before they can begin to even fathom what I am talking about

Last edited by zeuxidemus001; 10-09-2012 at 04:06 PM.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 609
# 149
10-09-2012, 04:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeuxidemus001 View Post
I would just recommend that anyone trying to spit out stats trying to debate an issue go and make a KDF character and ACTUALLY look at these ships before typing information that is so far from the truth.
Doctor, please stitch your own wound.

| Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,905
# 150
10-09-2012, 04:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mewi View Post
Doctor, please stitch your own wound.
It's impossible for humans to understand the need to draw blood.
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