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Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,034
# 501
10-11-2012, 03:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by luxandra View Post
The great irony about this with you right now is that you seem to feel like I have attacked you.
1) How is that ironic? Do you understand what irony means?
2) How can you tell how I feel from reading my text? You have quite an imagination!

The great irony of your post is that you had to post that rubbish in the quote above because you totally failed at your great 'debate'. You mad bro?
Subspace Party Nullifier Enthusiast

Last edited by rickeyredshirt; 10-11-2012 at 03:47 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 90
# 502
10-11-2012, 03:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by weylandjuarez View Post
It's completely irrelevant.

Why? Because opening a box requires a key. Keys come from the store, bought with Zen. Zen comes from outside the game. Either, purchased, granted via those survey offers or gifted as a stipend.

If Zen is purchased PWE makes money. If Zen comes from a survey offer PWE makes money. If it's a stipend then either an LTS or a subscription fee has been paid which may (or may not) make PWE money.

But if you seriously think there's so many old-time LTS players in here making up the bulk of the Zen on the Dilithium Exchange then you're on crack. Cryptic has been hiring, they're working on Neverwinter - there's more money flowing into that company than ever before (which is good - I'm pleased for them) - and it's coming from lockboxes - not from lifetime subscriptions - and it never will - instant veteran rewards or not.

It's a cheap, sloppily-executed cash-grab - not the brilliant business strategy you seem to think it is.

Are you sure you're not a PWE schill??
You are aware of the fact that while Cyptic is hiring and working on things like Neverwinter that they have to be contracted by the investor putting money in the make the game in the first place right? They do not own the game, they just own the code to make it all run smoothly. the IP itself is owned by the investor and anyone higher up on the business ladder than that.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 90
# 503
10-11-2012, 03:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickeyredshirt View Post
1) How is that ironic? Do you understand what irony means?
2) How can you tell how I feel from reading my text? You have quite an imagination!

The great irony of your post is that you had to post that rubbish in the quote above because you totally failed at your great 'debate'. You mad bro?
A debate is a constructive offering of differing opinions. There is no "winning" a debate. And your attitude is reflective of being offended by what you type. So yes it is quite ironic that you are the one attacking me saying that I am upset.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,034
# 504
10-11-2012, 03:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by luxandra View Post
A debate is a constructive offering of differing opinions. There is no "winning" a debate. And your attitude is reflective of being offended by what you type. So yes it is quite ironic that you are the one attacking me saying that I am upset.
If you take my responses as an attack that is your problem. I never said anyone 'won' or 'lost' either, just that you failed to get your point across (which you still cannot seem to adequately do). A common theme in your posts is lack of reading comprehension as well as a self-centered view. Nobody is attacking you, get over yourself.
Subspace Party Nullifier Enthusiast
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,020
# 505
10-11-2012, 03:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by luxandra View Post
You are aware of the fact that while Cyptic is hiring and working on things like Neverwinter that they have to be contracted by the investor putting money in the make the game in the first place right? They do not own the game, they just own the code to make it all run smoothly. the IP itself is owned by the investor and anyone higher up on the business ladder than that.
I'm not sure what your point is? (not being snarky - just genuinely don't know what you're trying to say here)

As I mentioned before, Cryptic is a wholly-owned subsidiary of PWE - PWE are financing them to develop Neverwinter (which has been licensed from Hasbro I'd guess without looking it up - could be wrong...)

Either the licensee gets a cut of the profits or not depending on the deal - regarding things like D&D, traditionally it's a hefty up-front license fee but they may have negotiated something different for an MMO..?
Please join our peaceful protest to help make STO a better game
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 90
# 506
10-11-2012, 03:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickeyredshirt View Post
If you take my responses as an attack that is your problem. I never said anyone 'won' or 'lost' either, just that you failed to get your point across (which you still cannot seem to adequately do). A common theme in your posts is lack of reading comprehension as well as a self-centered view. Nobody is attacking you, get over yourself.
You're implying that I want to convince everyone that I am right, I'm not. I know my opinions are my own and I also know that nobody is going to change what they think because of what I type. But here you are attacking me and telling me that I have failed in showing my opinion and providing my own counterpoints to support what I have said. Last time I checked in debate that's exactly what debating is. So again, it's ironic that here you are being the "Pot calling the kettle black."
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 90
# 507
10-11-2012, 04:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by weylandjuarez View Post
I'm not sure what your point is? (not being snarky - just genuinely don't know what you're trying to say here)

As I mentioned before, Cryptic is a wholly-owned subsidiary of PWE - PWE are financing them to develop Neverwinter (which has been licensed from Hasbro I'd guess without looking it up - could be wrong...)

Either the licensee gets a cut of the profits or not depending on the deal - regarding things like D&D, traditionally it's a hefty up-front license fee but they may have negotiated something different for an MMO..?
Basically what it means is that Cyptic has "limited" creative control over the product they are in charge of keeping up and running. That "limitation" is directly set in stone with the contracting agreement that they have creative authority to do (Insert product or theme here) To whatever stipulations are placed in the agreement. Essentially they can do whatever they want within the guidelines set in place for them.

Ultimately the final call however does not rest with them. They have to do what PWE tells them to do and if someone above PWE tells them they need to do something with an IP that the owner tells them to do. They have to do it. Basically the point is this, whoever is the investor if it isn't PWE, they are the ones contracting Cryptic to do that game. So for the sake of the point since I didn't know who the investor was until now, let's say that a different company than PWE is investing in the game. All of the profits and such from this game would not be applied to Neverwinter. But since it is, of course I'm sure a good portion of the profits from STO as well as the multiple other PWE games would be contributing to Neverwinter. The main point however is that the hiring and such is not reflective of profit margins from this game. Bear in mind that PWE has a fairly large selection of games all with a currency system all of them have the ability to earn free and purchase currency directly. So we cannot say for certain that this game is where the majority of the profits are coming from. Although I will admit I certainly hope they are because I have played a lot of other PWE games and they have gone downhill on several of them.
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Posts: 1,020
# 508
10-11-2012, 04:21 PM
Well, I wasn't implying that STO was making the kind of money the PWE execs could retire on - just that whatever it is making is sufficient for PWE expanding Cryptics workforce. LTS and subscription payments most likely make up a tiny amount of STO's revenue though - and if LTS sales were healthy, they wouldn't have felt the need to meddle with them.

In the long run, I'm sure PWE would like to get rid of LTS and subscriptions altogether - they serve no purpose in a F2P game.

Of course, STO isn't the only source of revenue from Cryptic, Champions no doubt still brings in some money.

Whether Cryptic is viable in the long term remains to be seen - studios are rarely closed whilst they're working on a game but increasingly are being shuttered once they've finished one...

P.S. And whilst I may not have mentioned it in this stream of posts (or perhaps I did, I'm too tired to look) - my own personal belief is that this mandate re: 1000-day vets didn't come from Cryptic - all the signs were that they were going to release the ships purely for 1000-day vets (evidence is there in-game and on the blog) - as I said at the time, this has the stink of PWE all over it.
Please join our peaceful protest to help make STO a better game
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Last edited by weylandjuarez; 10-11-2012 at 04:25 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 90
# 509
10-11-2012, 04:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by weylandjuarez View Post
Well, I wasn't implying that STO was making the kind of money the PWE execs could retire on - just that whatever it is making is sufficient for PWE expanding Cryptics workforce. LTS and subscription payments most likely make up a tiny amount of STO's revenue though - and if LTS sales were healthy, they wouldn't have felt the need to meddle with them.

In the long run, I'm sure PWE would like to get rid of LTS and subscriptions altogether - they serve no purpose in a F2P game.

Of course, STO isn't the only source of revenue from Cryptic, Champions no doubt still brings in some money.

Whether Cryptic is viable in the long term remains to be seen - studios are rarely closed whilst they're working on a game but increasingly are being shuttered once they've finished one...

P.S. And whilst I may not have mentioned it in this stream of posts (or perhaps I did, I'm too tired to look) - my own personal belief is that this mandate re: 1000-day vets didn't come from Cryptic - all the signs were that they were going to release the ships purely for 1000-day vets (evidence is there in-game and on the blog) - as I said at the time, this has the stink of PWE all over it.
And that is a statement I completely agree with. I am in no way disregarding the feeling that people have in regards to this. Because yes, it does raise questions as to the longevity of this game and In no way am I going to turn around and say that isn't a legitimate concern. I will however stand by my statement that while a potentially volatile change. It is not one that actually cheapens the LTS for anyone. What it does do is that it puts all of the LTS on the same page reward wise. Personally I would prefer the entire system was gone and that all accounts were on the same level and that all one had to do was make a purchase to buy the game and then be able to play it free for life. Which I can honestly say even though I have not looked at it yet I think GW2 has done the right thing for the F2P market and I hope it works out well. Because if it does then maybe a lot of the other gaming companies out there will realize where and how to market future games. WoW is one of the only successful exceptions to that rule and that was thanks to a lot of factors including perfect timing with no competition to challenge what it had to bring at the time. with that said, I think you and I have more than managed to express our differing opinions about this subject and I am going to go back to playing Dragon Age since I have left it running this whole time.
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,020
# 510
10-11-2012, 04:37 PM
Well, we'll agree to disagree on certain points but it's been interesting hearing your point of view whether or not I'm in agreement with it.

Enjoy Dragon Age! I'm of to execute some Doffs...
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