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Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 34
I took a look at the new ship stats on tribble recently, and discovered that the Fleet Ning'Tao Bird of Prey, with its appealing bridge officer layout, is considered to be fairly penalised with a base hull of 16500.
This puts the base hull of this vessel on par with To'Duj fighters (16500), and LESS than the Klingon shuttles (Toron and Chariot at 18000).

Isn't the terrible shield modifier of 0.66 enough of a reduction on this Bird of Prey's resilience?

Please reconsider the penalty on this vessel for its perks (namely bridge officer layout) - the base hull allocated to this vessel is absurd, and I'll state AGAIN - inferior to shuttles!

With the current state of the game it's not too difficult to evaporate a Hegh'ta BOP, let a lone a B'rel refit BOP with a critical hit from an alpha strike - wonderful bridge officer complement or not. Captains in this flying egg shell will simply be delivering free kills to their opponents upon every decloak!

Would love to hear some feedback on this, especially from seasoned Bird of prey captains!


Hei-Qin - I.K.S Apex Revenant - Tactical KDF
Lieutenant
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 38
# 2
09-13-2012, 07:06 AM
I think they also need to look at the equivalent ship fed side, the fleet defiant.

Just to compare if the designer of the bop was in the right frame of mind when he created them. I KNOW the bop is meant as a strike and hide, but to give it 1/2 the hull, much less shield mod, LESS slots for consoles, and, all this, at the fact that the fleet defiant costs 1fleet modual thing while the bop costs 4?

I'm confused, are fed players complaining about bop's slaughtering them in pvp or something?(And knowing most dedicated pvpers don't bother 'whining' about stuff, they just adapt, I tend to think its a try-it-once, die, then call hax type person lol)

I mean it seems so foolishly unbalanced toward fed side. (The tier 3 shipyard available ship is almost, if not AS good, as the tier 4 ship fed side, escorts)
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 3
09-25-2012, 11:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by amdarkwolf View Post
I think they also need to look at the equivalent ship fed side, the fleet defiant.

The Fleet Defiant is not the equivalent ship fedside, they are in totally different categories.

I'm not saying this to justify the Ning'Tao's disadvantages, but these ships are most certainly not created to fill the same roles.

One one hand, I feel they probably cut too deep on this one.

On the other, the BOFF layout is probably one of, if not the best, available to any ship and unlikely to ever appear on anything other than maybe a lockbox ship.


How else do they balance a ship with a CMD, 2x Ltc and 1 Lt station that has a high turn rate, battle cloak and can equip DHCs?

Last edited by ussultimatum; 09-27-2012 at 06:36 AM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 116
# 4
09-27-2012, 12:16 AM
There's nothing wrong with the Ning'tao's hull. It was made using only the finest Nausicaan labor, out of the the finest cardboardium alloys! Also, changing it would cost more money than paying out the relevant wrongful death suits.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,228
# 5
09-27-2012, 01:50 PM
Tier I

Fleet Patrol Escort vs. Fleet Qin Heavy Raptor

Hull 34,100 vs. 36,300
Sld.Mod 0.99 vs. 0.92
Wps 4x 3x vs. 4x 3x
Turn 16 vs. 15 (on a broken pivot)
Console 4x Tac, 4x Eng, 2x Sci vs. 4x Tac, 4x Eng, 2x Sci

??? vs. Fleet Scourge Destroyer Retrofit

vs. 31,350
vs. 0.92
vs. 4x 3x
vs. 17
vs. 4x Tac, 3x Eng, 3x Sci

Tier II

Fleet Escort Retrofit vs. Fleet Somraw Raptor Retrofit

Hull 30,360 vs. 34,650
Sld.Mod 0.77 vs. 0.71
Wps 4x 3x vs. 4x 3x
Turn 17 vs. 16
Console 4x Tac, 4x Eng, 2x Sci vs. 4x Tac, 3x Eng, 3x Sci

Tier III

Fleet Tactical Escort Retrofit Vs. ???

Hull 33,000
Sld.Mod 0.9
Wps 4x 3x
Turn 17
Console 5x Tac, 3x Eng, 2x Sci

Tier IV

Fleet Aquarius Destroyer vs Fleet Ning'tao Bird-of-Prey Retrofit

Hull 26,400 vs. 16,500
Sld.Mod 0.72 vs. 0.66
Wps 4x 2x vs. 4x 2x
Turn 17 vs. 22
Console 4x Tac, 4x Eng, 2x Sci vs. 3x Tac, 3x Eng, 3x Sci (1 less!)

Fleet Advanced Escort vs Fleet Hoh'SuS Bird-of-Prey

Hull 34,100 vs. 24,750
Sld.Mod 0.99 vs. 0.88
Wps 4x 3x vs. 4x 2x
Turn 17 vs. 21
Console 5x Tac, 2x Eng, 3x Sci vs. 4x Tac, 3x Eng, 3x Sci

Tier V

Fleet Heavy Escort Carrier Vs. ???

Hull 35,200
Sld.Mod 0.99
Wps 4x 3x
Turn 15
Console 4x Tac, 3x Eng, 3x Sci
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,228
# 6
09-27-2012, 01:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
The Fleet Defiant is not the equivalent ship fedside, they are in totally different categories.

I'm not saying this to justify the Ning'Tao's disadvantages, but these ships are most certainly not created to fill the same roles.

One one hand, I feel they probably cut too deep on this one.

On the other, the BOFF layout is probably one of, if not the best, available to any ship and unlikely to ever appear on anything other than maybe a lockbox ship.


How else do they balance a ship with a CMD, 2x Ltc and 1 Lt station that has a high turn rate, battle cloak and can equip DHCs?
Are you then intending on buying one (and I mean Ning'Tao's) I take it?
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 7
09-28-2012, 12:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by drkfrontiers View Post
Tier I

Fleet Patrol Escort vs. Fleet Qin Heavy Raptor

Hull 34,100 vs. 36,300
Sld.Mod 0.99 vs. 0.92
Wps 4x 3x vs. 4x 3x
Turn 16 vs. 15 (on a broken pivot)
Console 4x Tac, 4x Eng, 2x Sci vs. 4x Tac, 4x Eng, 2x Sci
You forgot innate cloak, which is basically a free console.

I think you also can't make these comparisons without adding BOFF slots.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drkfrontiers View Post
??? vs. Fleet Scourge Destroyer Retrofit

vs. 31,350
vs. 0.92
vs. 4x 3x
vs. 17
vs. 4x Tac, 3x Eng, 3x Sci
The Advanced Escort is the closest comparison, it has no Fleet version but its BOFF layout can be replicated by the Fleet Patrol.


Quote:
Originally Posted by drkfrontiers View Post
Tier II

Fleet Escort Retrofit vs. Fleet Somraw Raptor Retrofit

Hull 30,360 vs. 34,650
Sld.Mod 0.77 vs. 0.71
Wps 4x 3x vs. 4x 3x
Turn 17 vs. 16
Console 4x Tac, 4x Eng, 2x Sci vs. 4x Tac, 3x Eng, 3x Sci
Cloaking device missing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drkfrontiers View Post
Tier IV

Fleet Aquarius Destroyer vs Fleet Ning'tao Bird-of-Prey Retrofit

Hull 26,400 vs. 16,500
Sld.Mod 0.72 vs. 0.66
Wps 4x 2x vs. 4x 2x
Turn 17 vs. 22
Console 4x Tac, 4x Eng, 2x Sci vs. 3x Tac, 3x Eng, 3x Sci (1 less!)

Fleet Advanced Escort vs Fleet Hoh'SuS Bird-of-Prey

Hull 34,100 vs. 24,750
Sld.Mod 0.99 vs. 0.88
Wps 4x 3x vs. 4x 2x
Turn 17 vs. 21
Console 5x Tac, 2x Eng, 3x Sci vs. 4x Tac, 3x Eng, 3x Sci
Why are you comparing Raider class ships to Escorts?

They're not the same class, Destroyers / Escorts are in the same class.

You wouldn't compare the BoP to a Guramba in this manner would you?

It wouldn't make sense to put the Vorcha against the Patrol Escort, so why would you put BoPs against Escorts?



Quote:
Originally Posted by drkfrontiers View Post
Are you then intending on buying one (and I mean Ning'Tao's) I take it?
My Sci is sticking with his Kar'fi for now. BoPs are stalker/glass cannon type of ships, and it's never really been my style of play in this or any MMO.

I have one Tac in a Guramba and he's quite happy there even though there is no fleet version coming.

My second Tac will probably end up in the Fleet Vorcha.


So that's a complicated way of saying no.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,228
# 8
10-03-2012, 12:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
You forgot innate cloak, which is basically a free console.
I disagree. Cloak is overrate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
I think you also can't make these comparisons without adding BOFF slots.
This thread is in regards to the ship. Not the boff slots. BOFFs have nothing to do with ship hull, or for that matter shields or turn rate stats.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
Why are you comparing Raider class ships to Escorts?
These stats come directly from Cryptic's Fleet Chart.

Because thats all the KDF have at that fleet tier? Perhaps Cryptic can answer that better.

Last edited by drkfrontiers; 10-03-2012 at 12:53 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 9
10-03-2012, 09:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by drkfrontiers View Post
I disagree. Cloak is overrate.
You can disagree all you like.

It's an innate power, and it exists whether you like it or not; whether you think it's overpowered, underpowered or overrated.


If you want to argue those points go for it, but what you're doing is different - what you're doing is selectively choosing the aspects you feel like comparing while selectively ignoring others.



Quote:
Originally Posted by drkfrontiers View Post
This thread is in regards to the ship. Not the boff slots. BOFFs have nothing to do with ship hull, or for that matter shields or turn rate stats.
If you think this ship was not specifically balanced due to the BOFF layout you're just kidding yourself.

BOFFs are part of a ship and dictate what a ship can do, and getting 3 Universal Ltc powers and 1 Universal CMD level power on a ship that can cloak and mount DHCs is exactly why this ship ended up with the hull it did.

To be clear, that's the best BOFF layout in the entire game. It can basically recreate any current BOFF layout only better - trading out an Ensign slot for what works out to be an extra Ltc slot. The only thing keeping that in-line is that BoPs lend themselves to a couple of very specific styles of play due to...their hull and shields.


Again, as I said before, if you want to argue the Hull and Shields are too low for what you get in return - be my guest.

Purposefully ignoring part of a ship's design so you can toss up a bunch of numbers in red and cry foul is disingenuous at best.


Quote:
Originally Posted by drkfrontiers View Post
These stats come directly from Cryptic's Fleet Chart.

The Fleet chart in the SB list is just a list, there's nothing there that puts ship vs. ship in some kind of opposing faction table or chart.

You're just seeing what you want to see, again selectively choosing the things you want to push and selectively ignoring things that are inconvenient to pushing that agenda.


Last edited by ussultimatum; 10-03-2012 at 10:04 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,003
# 10
10-04-2012, 01:45 PM
the hull ok can live with that its a bop we do more with less my question would be where is the 10th console slot all "fleet" not retro ship were supposed to have cause it is a fleet bop even the awful aquarius gets a 10th console as a fleet varient.
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