Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,892
# 41
10-14-2012, 03:07 AM
the list roach postet seems very reasonable to me. but the inertia needs to be adjusted aswell imho. Otherwise you just get endless sliding cruisers.
However, i would leave carriers untouched.

*ps: somebody else covered the inertia already.
Go pro or go home

Last edited by baudl; 10-14-2012 at 03:13 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 597
# 42
10-14-2012, 04:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hereticknight085 View Post
I am going to say this one more time. The ship with the x2 skill tree bonus costs 300 dollars to get. Naturally since you have to pay so much, you get what you pay for. Why do you refuse to see this? This game is a p2w system. You pay, you get better ships. The lower cost and freebie ships aren't as good, simply because they are lower cost/free.

I mean is it really fair to expect a ship that only costs $20 to be as good as a ship that costs $50 or higher? No. You pay, get better stuff. You go free, you get mediocre stuff. It's not that hard to figure out.
It didn't cost me a thing because I am a lifetime subcriber.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,553
# 43
10-14-2012, 05:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexindcobra View Post
It didn't cost me a thing because I am a lifetime subcriber.
Did you have to pay to get your LTS or did you somehow get it for free?
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Tired of Wasting EC and Time trying to get Superior Romulan Operative BOffs? Here's a cheap and easy way to get them, with an almost 100% chance of success.
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 9
# 44
10-14-2012, 06:01 PM
The Chimera has a good turn rate because it has afaik the best inertia value in the game, 80. This results in a higher base turn rate from which bonuses from buffs, consoles, skills, etc are computed.

So what you have is a ship with a high base turn rate that gets bigger bonuses from any turn rate boost. When you consider how many things can buff turn rate, the cumulative effect will be quite large.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,420
# 45
10-14-2012, 06:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by malifae View Post
The Chimera has a good turn rate because it has afaik the best inertia value in the game, 80. This results in a higher base turn rate from which bonuses from buffs, consoles, skills, etc are computed.

So what you have is a ship with a high base turn rate that gets bigger bonuses from any turn rate boost. When you consider how many things can buff turn rate, the cumulative effect will be quite large.
that just means it doesn't slide around at all due to momentum, doesn't effect how quickly it rotates. among its peers, it has the lowest base turn rate, and receives the least benefit from any turn rate buffs.
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Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 449
# 46
10-14-2012, 10:05 PM
Heretic why are you jumping on OP so hard, It merely sounds to me he's trying to figure out why he is not getting the same kind of turning boost with skills etc. As the chimera he got recently, its no reason to point out pointless conjecture about pay to win or other such stupid non-sense. Not to say that the chimera shouldn't turn a lot faster then a dread. It shouldn't be getting such a disproportional difference in numbers. That is if what OP is saying is correct about his turn rate numbers. There is something wrong with the math formula's causing him not to gain the proper benefit from the increases he has.

I do agree with some others that cruisers in general kling and fed need a slight turning boost, this won't make them anywhere near turn rates of escorts. Though I always thought turn rate increases should be more on slower turning ships. But as it stands that is not how they work, there shouldn't disproportional change in the increases on higher turning vessels then the lower ones. Unless there are factors I'm unaware of. I'm going to look on oddy and then my chimera and see if there are discrepancies there too.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,553
# 47
10-15-2012, 12:23 AM
I can't completely answer your question without starting an online flamethrower contest cryptkeeper. But I am answering his question as to why the Chimera is so much better with turn rate. It's an escort/cruiser hybrid. It takes the best of both worlds. The tankiness and durability of the cruiser with the damage output and mobility of the escort.

What he is suggesting is that now that hybrids have been released, that they make a pureblood better. I don't disagree with WHAT he is asking, I disagree with WHY.

I feel like a broken record, but I think that just because a 300 dollar ship was released with amazing modifiers to it's stats and the fact that it's a hybrid that takes the best of both worlds, is NOT a good reason to boost the mobility of cruisers.

An exact quote from OP: Alexindcobra - "Why can't I get the same doubled turn rate boost in my Galaxy brands? I should at least get boosted to 12 for my Galaxy brands." He is asking for a 100% increase in the turn rate of his galaxy class dreadnaught. And ONLY because he can get that same 100% increase from the Chimera. That is why I keep on pointing out the pay to win bit over and over and OVER.

It makes perfect sense that a ship that requires a lifetime subscription would be able to achieve that 200% turn rate, whereas a ship that is not even close to the cost of a lifetime subscription would only be able to achieve a 150% turn rate. That is why I keep on stressing the pay to win system.

Ships you pay a ton of money for are naturally going to be significantly better than any ship you pay less for. OP also keeps on asking for numbers, whereas the point I am trying to make is qualitative, not quantitative. I am trying to get a basic concept across to OP and he asks for numbers, which I cannot give him due to the nature of what I am trying to tell him. But his apparent refusal to listen to reason is one of the main reasons I am "jumping on OP so hard".
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Tired of Wasting EC and Time trying to get Superior Romulan Operative BOffs? Here's a cheap and easy way to get them, with an almost 100% chance of success.
Why the Devs can't make PvE content harder.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,711
# 48
10-15-2012, 03:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hereticknight085 View Post
An exact quote from OP: Alexindcobra - "Why can't I get the same doubled turn rate boost in my Galaxy brands? I should at least get boosted to 12 for my Galaxy brands." He is asking for a 100% increase in the turn rate of his galaxy class dreadnaught. And ONLY because he can get that same 100% increase from the Chimera. That is why I keep on pointing out the pay to win bit over and over and OVER.
^^ This. /thread
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,115
# 49
10-15-2012, 08:51 AM
I'm reiterating this:

Total turn rate = [ship stated turn rate] + [turn rate of the engines] + [inertia] + [impulse modifier] + [consoles]

There is no magical 2x modifier. If you're turning twice as fast, it's because of the modifiers above.

The consoles give you a % increase. If the ship's stated turn rate, inertia, and impulse modifier are low, then the % increase will not be significant (I left out turn rate of the engines, as this is a fixed amount and is the same increase on any ship).

Even if you increase the stated turn rate of the ship, you are not going to get a 2x modifier to your turn rate (obviously, because a 2x modifier doesn't exist). Sure, you'll see a slight improvement, but no where near the turn rate of your Chimera.
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 449
# 50
10-15-2012, 12:19 PM
Well I have tested my oddy and chimera. From what i have gathered my oddy same engine same skills got 10.7 turn rate at max speed and engine power. 30.6 for the chimera at the same settings etc.

The percentages are rounded off and are not exact.
6 * 1.783 = 10.7

14 * 2.186 = 30.6

there is large difference between the percentages... I suspect that is due to the Impulse modifiers. 0.15 for cruisers and science ships. .20 for escorts but the chimera has .22

still a little confused why they decided to make escorts etc gain better and better benefits from turning due to higher base turn and impulse modifier. When typically any other stat in this game has diminished returns or at least 1 to 1.

I know this is comparing apples and oranges but they are both fruit. So some comparisons can be made.

The shield modifier and the impulse modifiers is the biggest example of odd balance. Most science ships have 1.3 shield modifier. Cruisers have 1.0 except oddy with 1.15( which is the same as fleet cruisers) Escorts have 0.9.

Science ships have highest gain from shields, escorts have highest gain from impulse engines... What do cruisers have hull ? Not really becuase there is no hull items except maybe consoles and they don't really count....

I can see two approaches to this you could just increase our impulse modifiers to like .17-.18 and just say cruisers are middle ground... They neither have best engines or shields but they a nice medium.

or they could add a hull item like structural integrity field that adds a percentage of hp increase to your hull and possible other bonuses and with cruisers greater hull strength they gain the largest increase.
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