Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 114
# 21
10-18-2012, 06:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by carmenara View Post
Stay at 9.99km to a high side and the gate will not be able to target you at all. This is a known exploit
Sorry, this is not an exploit but just a stupid idea. I.e. cannons lose 60% of their damage potential at that range.

Attack head on, even escorts have enough self healing to stay inside the gate. Just keep moving back and forth to keep your defence value up. Getting some help from the teammates won't hurt, it's not too hard to see who's got the focus.

I don't believe in a No-Win Scenario ... beat it with 21 chars
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,015
# 22
10-18-2012, 07:15 AM
Staying outside of 2km from a gate basically gives your team the finger for finishing the optionals.

4x60k tric mines are a reliable number, as pointed out it does in fact go much higher. I park my nose on the gate so my tric mines don't have to go as far and use CSV and TS to suppress the HY plasma. Watch for FAW to run out before you poop mines.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 658
# 23
10-18-2012, 07:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xxxhellspawnyxxx View Post
Sorry, this is not an exploit but just a stupid idea. I.e. cannons lose 60% of their damage potential at that range.

Attack head on, even escorts have enough self healing to stay inside the gate. Just keep moving back and forth to keep your defence value up. Getting some help from the teammates won't hurt, it's not too hard to see who's got the focus.
Who said you use cannons for extreme range bombardment? Certain weapon types have much less range attenuation. Make use of them.

There are many solutions to the simple problem of static STF missions. Some people can tank point blank (I do that 99% of the time), others need to be more cautious because they need more time to gain experience on defensive skills.

The whole point of my posting variable tactics is so that people can work to their strengths and learn multiple solutions and work with more ship types and piloting styles. This is an open forum and open discussion has always been to the benefit of this community.

What's stupid is stereotyping and forcing people to use tactics that do not suit their experience level. That causes instant massive failure and let me guess, you'll call them NOOBs for that reason.

As I recall, my post for the 9.99km 'exploit' is in reply to someone who has problems trying out a sniper technique. That gives me enough justification to think back 4, 5 months ago and dig up some useful info for the benefit of aforesaid fellow forumer.

The internet is filled with trolls and random abusers. We have enough of the sort in STO itself. What's needed is objective reasoning and adapting advanced strategies to allow laypersons, non gamers and new Captains to take the initiative and keep winning battles... for the benefit of us all.
STF Flight Instructor since Early 2012. Newbies are the reason why STO lives and breathes today. Do not discriminate.

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Last edited by carmenara; 10-18-2012 at 07:41 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,118
# 24
10-18-2012, 07:40 AM
Usually I can tank the gate without too many issues but they have buffed them up yet again.

Last night with full shields, EPtS3 on I went to 14% hull in a single shot. 2s later dead. That is pretty BS, with XII maco shields, EPtS3, and XII field generators.

A little later about 8k from the gate, my shields were about 80%.. dead. Same thing, EPtS3 is up always.

Now in S7 they are going to nerf tanking even more but I'm sure they won't change the gates or Donatra, or the ridiculous ISO charge in cure. One shot kills will be constant then.
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 312
# 25
10-18-2012, 08:04 AM
My Tac in the Escort nearly always gets killed in Cure Elitefrom the ISO. Also I am not able to withstant more than 45-50sec of sustained fire from the gates in Khitomer.

My engie in the AC does tank the raptor, the cube an the isometric charge from the Negh'Vars in Cure Elite.

Mmmmh. Works as intended would I say. Well, most of the time. Sometimes skills are on cooltime. Sometimes there are crits.



**** happens.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,690
# 26
10-18-2012, 02:32 PM
Sadly I think it probably is working as expected, I took my escort out for a spin today, I lost count of how many High yield plasma torpedoes were fired at me but they all hit for over 46k and ignored shields which happens to be more damage than i have health and on the 1 occasion I survived the torp I was killed 1 second later by a combination of the burn and a beam hit, effectively it had decided I was going to die whether I liked the idea or not.

Before people look up and say "Well escorts are meant to be squishy" they aren't supposed to get 1 shotted with EPtS cycling with Aux2SIF and tac team going on a keybind
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,874
# 27
10-18-2012, 03:23 PM
Well I've critted gates and cubes back for over 200k before a few times and regularly over 150k so I can't complain. Of course my little B'rel does get all the aggro and the favor usually returned by the gate or cube in the form of them directing their next 1 shot kill at me lol.

Don't get mad, get even. Use THY3 tricobalt torpedos and DPB3 tricobalt mines to crit them back even harder.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 658
# 28
10-18-2012, 09:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adamkafei View Post
Sadly I think it probably is working as expected, I took my escort out for a spin today, I lost count of how many High yield plasma torpedoes were fired at me but they all hit for over 46k and ignored shields which happens to be more damage than i have health and on the 1 occasion I survived the torp I was killed 1 second later by a combination of the burn and a beam hit, effectively it had decided I was going to die whether I liked the idea or not.

Before people look up and say "Well escorts are meant to be squishy" they aren't supposed to get 1 shotted with EPtS cycling with Aux2SIF and tac team going on a keybind

Yeah, EPTS , Aux2SIF TT and TSS typically gets me by a torpedo and beam salvo from the Borg. Have to take evasive action immediately upon seeing the incoming otherwise the next salvo will blow you up. Hence that's why a lot of people use the 9.99km 'exploit' to avoid being hit at all, even if it's at the cost of gunnery damage. Alive ship is better than dead ship waiting for respawn timer.

Anyways back on topic - may I take a look at what you have for damage resistances? Most of my characters have maxed shield stats and fairly high damage resistance and auxiliary power skills and this may be the reason why even my escorts and sci ships appear to be able to take a lot of damage in PvP and ESTF.

Here's what I think is important to survive a Borg torpedo hit:

1) Shields do nothing to mitigate torpedo damage, although torpedoes have some sort of penalty for shield penetration. The Borg torpedo just punches through shields with brute force. A very high capacity shield or Field Generator console mod will allow you to absorb more damage per shield facing. Ditto for active EPTS, preferably stacked with TSS.

2) Kinetic resistance. I presume whatever blowby is subtracted from incoming torpedo damage then transferred to the hull. Hull has a certain percentage of kinetic resistance according to active powers (Aux2SIF, PH) and a large amount of kinetic damage can be absorbed by Monotanium armor or multiple Neutroniums.

For my experience with newbie cruiser builds, putting two Monotaniums can raise the kinetic resistance up to 43%, if the captain's resistance skills are at a high level, even one Monotanium makes a big difference. Any more than 2 Monotaniums tend to be an issue of "diminishing returns".

3) Move and shoot. Escorts only have the squishy reputation if they sit stationary in front of an elite sphere or gate and their front shield is penetrated. But a moving ship can rotate through shield facings and make that initially deadly salvo into a 'moderate damage' shot which can be recovered from.

That means, despite whatever game guides and self appointed "experts" say, there is room to accomodate "attack run" based strategy where an escort conducts boom and zoom fully buffed attacks on critical targets under AP:Omega 3, orbits around and basically uses massive speed and burst DPS to advantage. And more good news: While I'm completely buffed up with Tac abilities and APO3 and having a temporary top speed on demand of 60-120 impulse, I can easily dash in and drop a few TCMs for maximum tactical nuclear penguin mayhem while delivering point blank max damage cannon salvoes.

STO allows for 3 dimensional tactics and ESTFs are not about procedures but achieving a team victory.

DPS statistics and "must point nose at target all day for max DPS" mentalities makes for a boring and predictable match, even in PVP tournaments.

Thus rather than going out in a blaze of glory and then pointing fingers at teammates for "not doing their part", repeated precision attacks at maximum combat efficiency can be a war winning strategy while PUGs do their part tanking and progressing the mission script.

A fast ship maintains tactical initiative and can engage and disengage at will. One that is stuck with wanting to point DHCs at the enemy for a maximum amount of time is stuck with waiting for cooldown timers and suffers with a shorter life expectancy if circumstances should turn in the pilot's disfavour.
STF Flight Instructor since Early 2012. Newbies are the reason why STO lives and breathes today. Do not discriminate.

My Youtube Channel

Last edited by carmenara; 10-18-2012 at 09:52 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,690
# 29
10-19-2012, 03:36 AM
Everything you have said here is true carmenara, As it is my escort runs 2 neutronuims (Mk XI, blue) and 2 field gens for defence; of course all of this is a MUST for any escort doing ESTFs, I do admit to having to respec my tac a little more into surviving as I kinda blended them between the Excelsior and the escorts (which I admit was a silly move on my part)
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,138
# 30
10-19-2012, 04:07 AM
When our fleet is doing stfs as a team I bring
My science ship with tykens rift and other
Power draining abilities she is rendered helpless
To do massive damage to us and she usually
Is destroyed very fast

We maintain 5 km distance and she doesn't
Cloak
The big tatical cube at infected goes down the same way
So does the gate

With there power being drained there super shots are
Normal shots most can deal with

I'n pugs it's a little more difficult, especially donatra
Because so many charge her causing the cloak and she
Has weapons recharged decloaking
Jellico....Engineer.....Stargazer KDF Tac
Saphire.. Science.....Ko'el Rom Kdf Tac
Leva........Tactical.....Mailu KDF Sci
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