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Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,273
# 41
12-02-2012, 01:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xantris View Post
Considering how easy Fleet Defiants are to aquire, it seems like a very reasonable and necessary trade-off for that ship. It would put it on par, if not ahead of (with the cloak), the Jem'hadar attack ship. We all know the bug is already OP, but at least its a lockbox ship. If that was a Ens Eng slot, no Fed would have reason to use any other escort.
Precisely. These Feddies are whining that Cryptic didn't make their ship even MORE 'OP' than it is. Seriously, it's got 5 tac consoles, and it turns fairly well for a Federation escort. KDF doesn't have any 5 tac console escorts, and the raptors all turn worse than the Defiant (the BoPs aren't destroyers/escorts). It's the KDF that has room to complain here, not the effing Feddies. They got a ship that literally has the power to shred through the TT1's redistribution, at least when used on BoPs and other escorts/destroyers. That's not enough for 'em, especially when combined with a cloak that gives exactly the same decloak bonuses as the vaunted 'OP' BoP battlecloak?

People trying to 'tank endlessly' in an escort are doing it wrong.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 313
# 42
12-02-2012, 06:46 PM
I use the third Tac Slot to run an instance of Beam Overload, equipping a single Dual Beam. the power comes back pretty quickly, and it provides an excellent amount of burst.

I didnt like the three tac slots at first, but after setting it up with 1 Dual Beam I quite enjoy it.


The cloak is trash, (not a battle cloak) and I rarely use it.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,553
# 43
12-02-2012, 06:49 PM
Why did you guys revive a month and a half old thread? Seriously? This is like the 10th zombie thread revived in the past 2 weeks. ENOUGH ALREADY. Make new threads, stop reviving old ones.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Tired of Wasting EC and Time trying to get Superior Romulan Operative BOffs? Here's a cheap and easy way to get them, with an almost 100% chance of success.
Why the Devs can't make PvE content harder.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,273
# 44
12-02-2012, 07:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hereticknight085 View Post
Why did you guys revive a month and a half old thread? Seriously? This is like the 10th zombie thread revived in the past 2 weeks. ENOUGH ALREADY. Make new threads, stop reviving old ones.
Eh, I don't care. I'm just using the opportunity to bash feddies who are never satisfied.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 45
12-02-2012, 09:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xantris View Post
The Fleet MVAE and the HEC both use the same layout for tac officers, and ...stuf

No, they don't.

Both of those ships make a trade off for their Ltc Eng and Sci BOFF slots.

The defiant just gets an extra useless tac slot.

While no ship likes the crappy 3rd ensign slot, the defiant suffers the worst from it.

Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 891
# 46
12-03-2012, 01:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
No, they don't.

Both of those ships make a trade off for their Ltc Eng and Sci BOFF slots.

The defiant just gets an extra useless tac slot.

While no ship likes the crappy 3rd ensign slot, the defiant suffers the worst from it.
FFS I was obviously talking about 3 tac ensigns
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,030
# 47
12-03-2012, 03:00 AM
personally i just use a torpedo tube and spread 1. photons in stfs (for the borg proc), quantums against anything else and chronitons/transphasic for PVP.
sure it does less dps in most situations, but torpedos have a certain utility that can't be denied (aceton assimilator, fire a salvo at frigates - change target - frigates will blow while you blow other stuff with your cannons)
But then again i do not see a torp tube instead of a forth DHC as big miss in DPS, more like an added variety to the arsenal that can fullfill other functions, energy weapons can't.
Go pro or go home
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 346
# 48
12-03-2012, 05:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
No, they don't.

Both of those ships make a trade off for their Ltc Eng and Sci BOFF slots.

The defiant just gets an extra useless tac slot.

While no ship likes the crappy 3rd ensign slot, the defiant suffers the worst from it.
That's where you lose me.
Yes, "third Tac Ensign" is useless; but it's no more and no less useless on the Defiant-F than on the Prometheus-F or Akira-F (or the Qin-F, for that matter!).
Should all those get an universal Ensign as well?

And you know very well the third Tac Ensign isn't lowering your DPS. If a DBB or Torpedo lowers your DPS (it does), you leave it empty (well, you put a 5th Efficient Saurian and don't care what skill he has).


Here's how Cryptic sees things:
- lockbox Ships=more powerful than the rest, can break balancing rules. Hence the JHAS.
- Fleet Ships should all be relatively balanced with each other and have their own niches.
Did they completely succeed on the balance front? No, but that's impossible.



But on the variety front, yes (I've already done this in the past, but here we go again):
1. Hermes-F.
Pros: Universal Ensign.
Cons: 10th Console is Eng.
Bog-standard thing. This Ship's one advantage over the other Fleet Escorts is its Universal Ensign; for that it pays in not having anything exceptional: turn rate is average, Hull/Shields are average, Consoles are bad,...
Give a Universal (or even Sci*) Ensign to the Defiant-F and this thing is pointless.

2. Defiant-F.
Pros: 5th Tac Console, Cloak, turn rate
Cons: Useless Ensign, lower Hull, lolCrew
The Defiant-F does have the best raw DPS of all Escorts. Between the Cloak's bonus, 5th Tac console and C/LC Tac, no non-JHAS can equal it.
You say the 5th Tac Console is overrated and it can be, yes, but so is the added Sci* Ensign power of the Hermes.
In the end, it's a slight damage bonus for a slight survivability malus.
Could be worse: the Qin-F has the useless Ensign but no 5th Tac Console!

3. Prometheus-F.
Pros: 5th Tac Console, LC Sci, MVAM
Cons: Useless Ensign.
Let's be honest: this thing is a cut above the rest. Not a huge cut, but a cut nonetheless.

4. Akira-F
Pros: LC Eng, if so inclined, Hangar, Hull, looks
Cons: Useless Ensign, Turn rate.
Personally, I'm no huge fan of the LC Eng, but I'd imagine anyone getting this would be.
A nice mix nonetheless.

5. Aquarius-F.
Pros: 2 Universal BOFFs, Turn rate, loldevices
Cons: Hull, Shields, Consoles, Impulse mod, lolCrew, 1 less Aft weapon
Even after the buff, this thing is still junk. Still can't understand why anyone would get it/fly it.


Tbh, if it was up to me, both for balance and consistency reasons, I'd change the Console layouts as such (Tac/Eng/Sci):
Hermes-F: 4/3/3
Akira-F: 4/4/2
Prometheus-F: 4/2/4

Now, to fix the "useless 3rd Tac Ensign" on all concerned Ships, the slot should provide some use, if less than others.
New BOFF abilities would be ideal (same for "useless 3rd Eng Ensign"), but a simpler fix is to make subsystem targetting work with all Energy Weapons.

*an all-cannon Escort has only 3 really useful DOFFs: Warp Core Engineer, Shield Distribution Officer, Damage Control Engineers; so EPTS1*2 is unnecessary.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 887
# 49
12-03-2012, 05:34 AM
Lets say you were to take 2x attack pattern Omega, 2x tactical team, 2x cannon rapid fire and try to get 2x beam overloads.

HEC:-
Cmdr tac: TT1, CRF1, APO1, APO3
Lt tac: TT1, CRF1
Ens: BO1

Tactical Escort retrofit:
Cmdr tac: TT1, CRF1, CRF2 or BO3, APO3
Lt Cmdr Tac: TT1, BO2 or CRF1, APO1
Ens Tac: BO1

So no, the tactical escort retrofit is fine. It's designed as a speed tank with a high alpha potential. It is fine.
Previously Alendiak
Daizen - Lvl 50 Engineer - Fleet Avenger
Selia - Lvl 50 Tactical - Fleet Avenger
Toval - Lvl 50 Tactical - Fleet Mogai
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 78
# 50
12-03-2012, 06:04 AM
The fleet MVAM is well ahead of this thing, they buffed the turn rate on the other escorts & still decided not to buff the shield mod to .99 or change the ensign station on the fleet Defiant. Sure it has a small boost to hull & a 5th tac console, but honestly this ship has lost ground on the others.
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