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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 152
# 21
10-15-2012, 04:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by echodarksided View Post
I have both ships and the lobi set. Of the OPs original list, only his concern related to #2 regarding the cooldown of SNB is valid. #1 is silly, and #3 is a situational, circumstance specific gimmick only with numerous counters that may work once unless the opponent has no counters to mines in their build.

The Temporal set + lobi set gives up a lot for a handful of gimmicks that do tie up 3 console slots, and when those gimmicks are on CD the ship is basically a weak sci ship or weak escort.
I believe that if you actually read my post carefully, you'd come away from it knowing that I also think #1 isn't worth worrying about. Furthermore, the problem with the time freeze is that it overcomes the standard anti-mine counters, and that is what I'm concerned about.

As to the second: taking impulse speed from 21.43 to 8.91, and reducing SNB cooldown to 70 SECONDS (just did some testing for hard numbers) at the optimal recharge, allowing for a very intensive pressure sequence. This is quite simply bloody well unacceptable from a balance point of view. Doubling the recharge speed of something like this, part of the time, has profound implications. Borticus, I know you recognize the power of buff-stripping based on the work with the SNB doffs and those discussions. This is an even bigger balance concern simply due to the fact that SNB isn't a random element, but rather a controlled one that just received a massive, massive buff. Please give us some indication that you're at least aware of what a significant issue this is, and that something appropriate will be done.

EDIT: More numbers, courtesy of one of my fleeties:

As snb is a 2 minute timer, we can safely say the most times I can possibly subnuke in a 20 minute period is 10 times.

With the lobi temporal warfare set, this number changes to 13 times in a 20 minute period, with seven of these SNBs also adding the AOE CD/Flight speed and turn reduction, which with a -233% recharge SNB puts a freshly used ability like xxx Team on a 3 minute cooldown, however when the snb is cleared they remain on a 1 minute cooldown as long as the field is still in effect.

This effectively allows for (if used at CD recharge every time) a subnuke every 90s vs a subnuke every 120s.

The set alone proc can obviously be avoided by distance, but with beam target engines + torp proc + beam proc, you can effectively reduce a target traveling at 21.83 impulse to 8.93 impulse. If this is done to a healer, evasving away and leaving your team stranded should not be your "only option".


SNB Timers using Lobi set, Odd numbered timers have temporal field active

snb 1 @ 0:00
snb 2 @ 1:20
snb 3 @ 3:20
snb 4 @ 4:40
snb 5 @ 6:40
snb 6 @ 8:00
snb 7 @ 10:00
snb 8 @ 11:20
snb 9 @ 13:20
snb 10 @ 14:40
snb 11 @ 16:40
snb 12 @ 18:00
snb 13 @ 20:00
12th Fleet | Sad Pandas | Starfleet M.A.C.O.

Last edited by naldoran; 10-15-2012 at 06:32 PM.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 79
# 22
10-15-2012, 06:20 PM
Hi, I'm a Critz member and I'd like to confirm through owning all these that they are overpowered.

Naldoran is right on target. To a pve'er, or someone who just uses these casually in pvp they are may not seem terribly OP. But even in a mostly heal setup in my Wells ship I have put escorts from almost full shields to 1% hull. That's in a suboptimal build and not coordinating. And I'm a sci capt in a wells. Imagine if I jumped in the mobi or was a tac?

With a coordinated team build even with only 1 set on 1 ship I could probably get 3 or 4 kills every time these abilities are up. And the abilities have no counter and are unresistable. This is the problem.

Give me a team with 2 or three sets? LOLZ. We don't do it because it's unbalanced and we don't need it. But that hardly means we are unaware of it or don't know it's potential. Anytime something like this is brought up on the forums we run the risk of seeing it everywhere in the next few days but have no other way to get Bort's attention. Hopefully Bort can see and fix this soon?.

Kudos to Naldoran and the Pandas for bringing the issue up for a balance pass.

Nixus
Nixus
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 151
# 23
10-15-2012, 06:28 PM
Just lol at this thread, oh no something we have to pay for iike crazy may be over powered, lets nerf nerf nerf. Nerfing is what ruins the game, such a joke some of you are, just deal with it. Oh no som eone may have somehing better than what you own, its a game, not everyone is entitled to the same damn thing, its nice to have something different than the usual decloak alpha, and ****.


Tell ya what lets just get rid of all player abilities all together, and bo's, and fly around just shooting, then it would be fair right?
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,206
# 24
10-15-2012, 06:32 PM
I agree with the OP, all the temporal lobi/timeship sets need balancing, reduce its effects, and/or increase cd on them, its too much of an I win button as it is now.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 110
# 25
10-15-2012, 07:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dan512 View Post
Just lol at this thread, oh no something we have to pay for iike crazy may be over powered, lets nerf nerf nerf. Nerfing is what ruins the game, such a joke some of you are, just deal with it. Oh no som eone may have somehing better than what you own, its a game, not everyone is entitled to the same damn thing, its nice to have something different than the usual decloak alpha, and ****.


Tell ya what lets just get rid of all player abilities all together, and bo's, and fly around just shooting, then it would be fair right?
Nerfing an Iwin button is not ruining the game. It's fixing something that in its present form can be viably exploited to ruin the game. I've blown probably 300+M on items I know will be nerfed (multiple tholian ground sets, and now this set just to test). Do you think I care that I've "wasted" ec for a better game experience? No. I personally blew 65M this morning just to test that set. Cry me a river.

The set is absolutely cheesy in terms of the fact that even after the SNB is cleared, your timers are still effected by the field, and in conjunction with the movement debuffs and power recharge penalty, in anything but an omega'd escort you are put in a situation of: Evasive over 5km away, with huge movement penalties on you, while the origin player of the field has huge movement buffs. Please tell me how a heal setup oddy/recluse will get away from this without having to basically Talon Jones across the map, leaving their team without a healer. And this is just how cheese it can be using it on a healing ship, these tactics can be modified to whatever your basically locking down every 90~ seconds and this is also ignoring the fact that you can SNB faster than anyone else is capable of.

I do not feel the movement debuffs are game breaking at all, they are actually a nice disable. When used in conjunction with the set bonus, at the expense of 1 console slot, you can literally lock someone down and semi subnuke them, both of which are unclearable. When used intelligently, this is a disgustingly unbalanced set. In my mind everything in a game which includes PvP needs an intelligently designed hard counter system. A 100% sucks for you Iwin button does more for ruining game experience than letting people run around thinking "I paid for it I should be better."
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,206
# 26
10-15-2012, 07:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwemo View Post

Nerfing an Iwin button is not ruining the game. It's fixing something that in its present form can be viably exploited to ruin the game. I've blown probably 300+M on items I know will be nerfed (multiple tholian ground sets, and now this set just to test).


. A 100% sucks for you Iwin button does more for ruining game experience than letting people run around thinking "I paid for it I should be better."
Excellent points, well said.


Although maybe I'd agree with only reducing its pvp effectiveness if there is a way to do that, letting people have their I win button in pve wouldn't be so bad, still cheesy though.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 881
# 27
10-15-2012, 07:20 PM
Who needs an Iwin button for PvE anyway? You're practically in God-Mode already.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 797
# 28
10-15-2012, 07:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hurleybird View Post
Who needs an Iwin button for PvE anyway? You're practically in God-Mode already.
i regularly get killed by pve. i need the iwin button.

:p
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,206
# 29
10-15-2012, 08:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hurleybird View Post
Who needs an Iwin button for PvE anyway? You're practically in God-Mode already.
That guy complaining about a potential balancing to temporal set does need one apparently.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 668
# 30
10-15-2012, 11:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dan512 View Post
Just lol at this thread, oh no something we have to pay for iike crazy may be over powered, lets nerf nerf nerf. Nerfing is what ruins the game, such a joke some of you are, just deal with it. Oh no som eone may have somehing better than what you own, its a game, not everyone is entitled to the same damn thing, its nice to have something different than the usual decloak alpha, and ****.


Tell ya what lets just get rid of all player abilities all together, and bo's, and fly around just shooting, then it would be fair right?
I don't think you understand those of us that are saying the set bonus is OP and needs to be dialed down or have a counter added... already OWN The set. It is funny... and no its not different then the decloak alpha... I was around back when I could decloak my bop and kill pretty much all but the best engi cruisers in under 5 seconds.... Cryptic has added so much healing that isn't an option anymore.... But luckily they have given me away to simply cloak you from the game for 7 seconds... have fun when you decloak and realize 4 of my tric mines have already zeroed in on your hull. LOL

The cool down decree needs to be toned down or removed... and the freeze you for 7 seconds... needs to have a proper counter added.
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