Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 47
# 121
10-25-2012, 08:01 AM
The biggest thing I have seen running into the hive is getting people used to the idea that the floor can and will be used against them.

My suggestion would be to have a couple of red shirts beam down with the team and add a cut cinematic showing them get vaporized by the floor. The visual aid should help enforce the idea that you need to watch the floor.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,537
# 122
10-25-2012, 08:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by captainbrown2 View Post
The biggest thing I have seen running into the hive is getting people used to the idea that the floor can and will be used against them.

My suggestion would be to have a couple of red shirts beam down with the team and add a cut cinematic showing them get vaporized by the floor. The visual aid should help enforce the idea that you need to watch the floor.
No more pointless cutscenes, please...

If you die once on the floor, then you should know to be careful next time. Keep in mind that STFs are (or at least were...) not about breezing through them without issues, but learning good new strategies and being a team player, even if that means learning on your mistakes. You don't really need a cutscene reminder every time you play just for that.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,028
# 123
10-25-2012, 12:39 PM
Not exactly the epic STF we've been hoping for. Highly disappointing as it is now. Completely missing a space section, on top of being a bit short.

This corridor I think needs a trick or two. It's dying for some cool firefight or technique with the floor squares.

Some sort of bounding overwatch or something, where you have to advance down the corridor clearing Borg groups from clear squares (so that you can get to them safely) while at the same time keeping a Borg with a super AOE death laser from being able to charge it up to obliterate the whole corridor, while avoiding the squares on the floor.

EDIT: OK I nerded out and attempted (very poorly) to illustrate what I meant. Click here.

A corridor like that shouldn't be wasted!
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Last edited by brigadooom; 10-25-2012 at 01:54 PM.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 96
# 124
10-25-2012, 02:02 PM
So many things to say.

Group: Elite difficulty, pug, got queen past the giant gorn of doom phase and about half dead in the next (I believe) final phase. Two tacs and eng and a ... uh... sci? Not sure. Only one group, spent and hour and 15 on it.

So my old feedback, that it's basically shallow still applies. Adding more damage doesn't actually make it interesting.

The giant circles you place on the floor don't last long enough to be seem to be more than just inconvenient.

So the 3 parts.

First part, run around, hit button, kill borg. Gets old fast, gets old by the time you're on the 8th generator. I'm not sure if you want us to knock them off the edge, but that seems to be a possible trick here, and that could largely trivialize the whole thing.

Second room, click button, kill borg, don't put circles on your whole group, but if you do... meh. The circle placement should matter (Think defiles on the lich king, or puddles on putricide if you want an example here), but it doesn't. The whole mechanic is a ticking cone of doom onto your character and you shouldn't want to plant it somewhere bad. But well, it doesn't hit very hard and it's actually quite a long tick down so you end up not really getting much out of it.

Long ominous corridor of nothing. Seems odd. I could get used to it being nothing, but on first impressions it seems odd.

Queen encounter

2 borg packs.
Queen
2 Borg packs
Queen + circles
Giant Gorn + borg pack
Queen (got her to 50%) + circles + green squares.

So first of all... why does this encounter reset... at all? one of the good things about the space game is it's relatively 'no fail' nature, you can lemming yourself on the encounter to make progress. On the ground you can get yourself to a point part way through the last boss where your group is simply not capable of succeeding. That's bad. Especially if you die a lot and people have too many wounds to be effective.

The borg trash packs... again, seems like we could knock them off the edge?
The queen herself doesn't seem to hit as hard as the elite tactical drones. What's the point in having anti-borg gear that can't stand up to a borg? Because they can almost one shot you even in MK XI maco gear. This might, in part, be an AI focusing fire problem (if you have no idea what I'm talking about lanchester attrition models will explain how it's a quadratic increase in casualties for ranged where you concentrate fire).

Giant gorn.. meh.

The whole thing overall:

The Green squares of doom mechanic: Unfortunately whomever your artist is decided to get creative with these and it's a green square around a decal in green on a black floor. But from within the circle it's actually quite hard to tell which direction is out in a hurry.



I made a comment in /tts about your designers designing for the technology they think you have, not the technology you actually have. And that deserves some elaboration.

First of all, your game physics is wonky. Because you don't do ragdoll you end up with animations doing lateral slides. It's looks weird, and completely out of place on the borg and stranger still it's not always clear what effect a 'knockback' is going to have. What does this have to do with 'the hive' when the same basic problem effects ships (including big capital ships like donatra's scimitar)? Well it's not obvious when a knockback shouldn't work, or when it should basically, and so it's not always clear what the designer intent was. Do you expect me to try and knock these guys off the side? That's fine (and surprisingly satisfying even the hundredth time), but if that's a necessary part of the encounter I have no idea. Especially on the queen, where you could knock most of the borg packs off the edge not being able to tell when it's going to behave the way you want and when it isn't is annoying. Maybe your designers can tell, but to an outside observer it just looks like your physics is broken.

Secondly gates/forcefields. Why do your designers keep putting these things in? Seriously. Did your lead content designer program the gates and think they work perfectly? Because they don't. Ever. The problem is probably actually in your triggering system, not the forcefield/gate code itself, but either way it's not all that helpful. My lingering suspicion is that you suffer from common triggering problems related to floating point rounding errors, z-checks (essentially someone can jump over a trigger point), and your trigger-player collision code isn't executing fast enough or in synch with the client-server position synchronization code. I realize when you started development this was a non option, but these days if you can do that on a GPU on your racks it's much much much much much (did I mention much) better than on a CPU. Seriously, the forefields don't add anything positive to any of the in game content. You died, and tried to respawn well tough you're locked over there. Everyone died, encounter resetting (again, encounters shouldn't reset, that's not consistent with the rest of your game, maybe- big maybe, restart the phase, but not the whole encounter), now you're trapped in a forcefield and have to wait to get killed 'again' because you respawned thinking the encounter was over when it wasn't. You've got technology for respawn points, forcefields, transporters etc. but it's not clear how it's supposed to work when you're just using it from an outside player, and it's more frustrating and disconnecting me from the content than helping.

Third: You can put all sorts of effects in, which, on their own, look very cool. The green squares of doom for example. But you have to think about how each effect combines with the others you already have. In the first part you only rarely see the green squares in isolation because of all of the effects happening at the same time. It's all well and good to have these cool animations, but they're worse than useless if you can't actually see them happening because they interact badly with other animations. This is a 'you have the technology to show them off, but not show them off well with other animations' problem.

I could go on, but it's not all that complimentary, and I think you get the idea.

As I've said previously, the core problems are really your entire ground game, the mechanics of it, and how your designers approach it.

Into the hive itself has some good overarching stuff to it, it's clear you've learned from the previous STF's with long corridors of trash and so on. It's 3 distinct encounter areas, each of which only takes about 5 minutes if done perfectly, so the pacing is good. But you rely on buggy stuff; clicking the panels seemed to fail twice on us in the first room, but I can't tell you how, because I was clicking, the borg spawned, it *seemed* to work, maybe we wiped or a borg can repair the panel or something, hard to say, forcefields and gateways respawn etc. and the encounter actually gets harder the more you try, and fail, because your character gets more and more wounded. On test this is particularly problematic because there's no easy supply of critical regenerators.


In the space game basically two good players can carry the other 3 through elite stf's. That might be a bit too easy, but the ground game you need 5 people who are all able to pull their own weight, and you need group abilities synergy- that you don't have because people don't have synergy in pugs. I could easily see some group combinations never being able to do the borg packs phases on the last boss.



If I were your lead designer I'd pull into the Hive until you've had a look at all of the ground combat, gotten to the point where players can select their own kit abilities and so on, and release it then as a showcase of stuff you couldn't give players before, but can now. Right now it's just a reminder of why not to play ground game elite content if you can avoid it. And that's not fixable on just "The Hive" without trivializing it.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 96
# 125
10-25-2012, 02:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by suaveks View Post
No more pointless cutscenes, please...

If you die once on the floor, then you should know to be careful next time. Keep in mind that STFs are (or at least were...) not about breezing through them without issues, but learning good new strategies and being a team player, even if that means learning on your mistakes. You don't really need a cutscene reminder every time you play just for that.
Not everyone can actually see that floor being lit.

Though I agree, more cutscenes don't add much.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 96
# 126
10-25-2012, 02:05 PM
Oh and unrelated to my previous two points.

I'm not sure if this is hive specific. But if *one* person cancels out of the cinematic on the last boss the fight starts up, even if the other four people are still watching. Meaning they are dead before knowing what happened.
Ensign
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 15
# 127
10-25-2012, 02:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by brigadooom View Post
Not exactly the epic STF we've been hoping for. Highly disappointing as it is now. Completely missing a space section, on top of being a bit short.

This corridor I think needs a trick or two. It's dying for some cool firefight or technique with the floor squares.

Some sort of bounding overwatch or something, where you have to advance down the corridor clearing Borg groups from clear squares (so that you can get to them safely) while at the same time keeping a Borg with a super AOE death laser from being able to charge it up to obliterate the whole corridor, while avoiding the squares on the floor.

EDIT: OK I nerded out and attempted (very poorly) to illustrate what I meant. Click here.

A corridor like that shouldn't be wasted!
Don't know if this is in the thread already but they are doing a space run to match. It's mentioned in another thread, you fight the Borg queens diamond ship.

Apparently it was going to be a surprise but they let people know because of the negative feedback they're getting.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,028
# 128
10-25-2012, 02:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bkell1977a View Post
Don't know if this is in the thread already but they are doing a space run to match. It's mentioned in another thread, you fight the Borg queens diamond ship.

Apparently it was going to be a surprise but they let people know because of the negative feedback they're getting.
Ah, thanks, that's good to know.
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Ensign
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 15
# 129
10-25-2012, 02:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by brigadooom View Post
Ah, thanks, that's good to know.
Here's the link:

http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...31#post6250331
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,175
# 130
10-25-2012, 03:56 PM
i tryed running it durring the event earlier today 3 out of 4 times i got stopped by the force field bug

the last time after 45 minutes of trying to get past the final part people just started leaving. we even had the queen down to 10hp until EVERY floor panel lit up green in the room every single one
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