Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 341
# 121
10-18-2012, 03:13 PM
im honestly on both sides of the fence with this change i see why it was done but i also use the MACO XII with the 3 piece borg set i really don't see me losing much from it all i really lose the shielding i honestly don't see why everyone is so up in arms over the shield regen proc it was useful yes but ultimately fickle. im not real hurt at the change but like the borg i will adapt i may just go with a MACO/Omega Hybrid playing off the tet glyder while retaining a good shield plus accuracy is kinda important to a escort. it was a fun run with the set but i kinda agree it was kinda exploiting the set with its regen ability of the shield but hey i used the borg shield before hand as well in place of the MACO before i got it and i really did not blow up much and i fly a Defiant R so you may complain all ya want but i say it is a good balance of gameplay.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 809
# 122
10-18-2012, 03:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by trek21 View Post
Maybe your standards are just too high

But seriously, I don't agree with that assessment, as I enjoy this game, even as my opinion of the grinds is merely 'meh'.

Then again, I enjoy the medicore as much as the best And I don't care which STO is, whether in opinion or fact; I still enjoy it
Half of that assessment is simple fact. I have LITERALLY been hit for 65k+ damage from one plasma torpedo. Many of the recent choices Cryptic has made (Bind to Characters, Into the Hive, the Dilithium Tax on Crafting, etc.) rubbed me wrong. There have been very few choices I liked, and this is nearly the last straw. It DOES seem like Cryptic doesn't want us to have fun. I play this game to have fun, and one of the best ways is being ripped out for a completely arbitrary reason.
CHARACTER GRID (@Lord-Ice):
___ |___ _ Fed ____| ____ _KDF __ ____| Rom
Tac_|_Thomas Hale_| __ __Illusion _____| Silence (K)
Eng | ___Antilles _ _| _ Mirror Rygobeth__| N'Vek (F)
Sci _| __ Rygobeth _| _Lukor Son of Q'Tar | Devala (F)
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,016
# 123
10-18-2012, 03:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
Even after the Borg Set Bonuses were toned down several months ago, nothing really changed. The vast majority of players continued to run Borg 2- or 3-piece, plus a shield of their choosing, benefiting from a design oversight to a degree that left combat in an imbalanced state.
(Emphasis mine)

If we then must use the borg shield to get the bonus now, will you revert the bonuses to the "pre- toned down" state? I think that would be a reasonable compromise.
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,691
# 124
10-18-2012, 03:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by trek21 View Post
No, but I can agree with correcting it
To you and maybe to the devs its "correcting" (at least until the next round of dev musical chairs hits, then who knows what devs will be around to think what is and isn't balanced) but to others it is not so. What will matter most is how the playerbase reacts to the upcoming changes. I don't think any amount of superior smugness will be of too much help if too many people leave and the game feels like a ghost town will it? Or worse yet, becomes a more churn based game, then we can be sure nothing will ever get fixed.

A lot of changes are coming, we'll just have to see what happens, ideally without being purposevely aggravating to others that have a different point of view yes?

Last edited by skyranger1414; 10-18-2012 at 03:24 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,360
# 125
10-18-2012, 03:19 PM
I'd be happier if the new 3-piece set with the console didn't force me to use different weapon types. I was pretty happy with antiproton and quantum weapons, but none of those consoles will help a cutting beam or a plasma torpedo. Since changing energy weapon types isn't happening, that leaves the option of either changing to plasma torpedoes entirely, or splitting up the console space and taking the damage reduction in order to run some kind of combination build.

OR, a new tactical console specific to kinetic damage, released in conjunction with the rest of this. That might help.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 854
# 126
10-18-2012, 03:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
At the risk of re-igniting the flames, allow me to attempt to explain the reasoning behind this change...

The Borg Space Set was originally balanced around the concept of players using all four pieces. This included the Regenerative Shield.

After the set went live, it became very evident that the vast majority of players did not wish to use the Borg Shield. Instead, they began running 2- and 3-piece conglomerations of Borg Set + Other Shields (and frequently Other Engines or Deflectors).

The trouble this presented, is that the passive heal procs present on the 2- and 3-piece Borg Set bonuses were intended originally to offset the downside presented by having a low-capacity shield array in an end-game environment where heavy spike damage was present (STFs). When you remove that shield from the mix, and replace it with a high-capacity alternative, you begin to receive all of the benefits and none of the downsides.

Hence an imbalance came to pass.
Yeah, I even remember the podcast you and Chris did way back that mentioned the benefits of a Borg set + covariant shield combo. Still have my old Covariant Mk X [cap]x3 shield in my bank that I used for the original combo (being better then the Aegis shield).

Almost two years later and peoples builds have hardly changed other then swapping out the shield.

Quote:

*snip*

We're watching the aftermath of all of this very closely to ensure that our motivations for making the choices that we did, match up with the results that players are experiencing. It may come to pass that the Borg Set items, or associated Set Bonuses, now need to be improved under this new design. That's something we'll continue to keep on our radar.
The problem is what's happening here is exactly what happened after the last attempt at nerfing the set. People ignore the imbalance and how the set gives them virtually nigh invulnerability to everything but insta-popping isometrics and whine how the very meagre changes will mean they will pop like an overripe zit should a probe target them. I know, I know, that's a vast exaggeration (I think).

As a result of that whining back then, we still have the same problems. No one is going to happily give up a nice reliable free heal unless they are actually interested in balance.

Personally speaking the least powerful set bonus (tractor beam) should become a 2-piece set bonus, while the hull heal proc should become a 3-piece set bonus along with the shield heal proc. That way people will be forced to make a choice. High cap shields or Weak shields with free heal and shield proc.

Quote:
As one result of the feedback we've already received in relation to this change, we're performing another performance review of all of the STF set bonuses, with a specific focus on the 3-piece abilities. This includes the Heavy Graviton Beam, Gravitic Anchor, and Mask Energy Field. All of these powers will be improved in some manner, along with an upcoming patch.
As for the 3 piece abilities, I'd certainly agree that Heavy Graviton Beam should be a little heavier. Personally I'd say the Masked Energy Field is rather useless, so perhaps replaced it with something else or have it provide a 5% damage and defense bonus when it's deactivated. As for gravitic anchor I'm not sure it needs much of a change, perhaps an additional reduction in speed or instead casts grav well.



Quote:
Originally Posted by icegavel View Post
An exploit would be finding an invincibility glitch and using it to run STFs, like Voldemort way back when. This was a tactic. A build, like any other.
Which virtually everyone used. Why? Because it was so damn powerful. 25-30% hull regeneration! And that was after the first nerf.

Quote:
On to your other comment, so its "proper place" is total uselessness? I had nearly 13,000 shield capacity before this, and they were STILL being ripped apart before this. Now I've got 9,075, and that will vanish even FASTER.
Total uselessness? Since when is a reliable hull heal totally useless?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bridgern View Post
Undo the changes made to the current Borg Set. and make Omega, MACO and KHG a more atractive alternative.
The Borg set is overpowered, even after these changes it'll still be overpowered. So two nerfs later and it'll still be peoples number one choice, that's how crazy it is.

To make a set that matched the Borg sets OPness it would be a set which reliably drains 25-30% of the targets health and drain their shields to nothing. Now imagine that being used against you.

The set needs a severe balance pass and I say this as someone who has used it virtually since it became available.
Previously Alendiak
Daizen - Lvl 50 Engineer - Fleet Avenger
Selia - Lvl 50 Tactical - Fleet Avenger
Toval - Lvl 50 Tactical - Fleet Mogai

Last edited by orondis; 10-18-2012 at 03:41 PM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,642
# 127
10-18-2012, 03:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by skyranger1414 View Post
A lot of changes are coming, we'll just have to see what happens, ideally without being purposevely aggravating to others that have a different point of view yes?
Sorry, but that's just how I am.

I hate being wrong... at anything, and I mean anything. Maybe it's the gamer background, but I prefer easy, and I'm used to winning (so I hate losing), and used to how I do things. And that streak is ingrained in me, more-or-less.

So don't think I'm intentionally doing it; it's just how I come across, unfortunately.
Was named Trek17, but still an author.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 809
# 128
10-18-2012, 03:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by orondis View Post
Total uselessness? Since when is a reliable hull heal totally useless?
Since when has it been reliable? I chose to use the proc for extra resilience. Its activation is not consistent, and it isn't that great. But, it does more than other sets. Now that I'm going to need more hull heals (since regenerative shields are made of papier mache), it's worthless unless it were to more consistently activate.
CHARACTER GRID (@Lord-Ice):
___ |___ _ Fed ____| ____ _KDF __ ____| Rom
Tac_|_Thomas Hale_| __ __Illusion _____| Silence (K)
Eng | ___Antilles _ _| _ Mirror Rygobeth__| N'Vek (F)
Sci _| __ Rygobeth _| _Lukor Son of Q'Tar | Devala (F)
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 137
# 129 Aegis Love?
10-18-2012, 03:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
The existing set is becoming Mk XI. Under the Omega Reputation, there will also be Mk X and Mk XII versions available.
Borticus, is the Aegis Set going to be improved at all? i love the rective shielding bonus but i just dont notice it resists much even with th full 10 sIacks. and how come i cant view shield damage resistance in my ship staus window when i can see hull resist? Thank you
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Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 56
# 130
10-18-2012, 03:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
Even after the Borg Set Bonuses were toned down several months ago,
So are you atleast gonna tone up the bonuses now you are nerfing how the set works?
So it atleast gets something good out of this change?
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