Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 208
# 291
10-22-2012, 09:17 AM
Ok, so they feel Starbases are at a good progression level now right?

Starbases cost Dilithium and DOFFs. Both have become exceedingly valuable these days. Now adding a cost of high Dilithium to basic DOFF stuff is going to drive both prices even higher.

This will also drive Dilithium down even lower. I can imagine as little as 100-75 Dilithium per 1 Zen on the exchange if this change goes live with the Reputation system which also costs Dilithium and DOFFs.

They're basically making it very easy to NOT give them money. I grind Dilithium and earn 8000 on my main and I can get a nice chunk of Zen soon for that. I'll never have to buy Zen again at this rate.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 12,997
# 292
10-22-2012, 09:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by carl103 View Post
@Dalolorn: as a former cashual doffer i cna tell you i gave up before i learned about the grinders. they where what got me into doffing, without semi-reliable crits and good ways of easilly raising your commendation total's, (often through said crits), doff'ing just dosen't give enough back to be worth putting any effort into.

TBH i think this change is aimed at peventing anyone from becoming a hardcore doffer. I earn an easy half a K per character with substandard doffs fed side as it is. Serious doffer's with lots of alts must be earning 1000's a day per character, 10's of K over the whole account, which if the number, (of players), reaching that standard continued to increae, (however slowly), would distort their dilithium grind money making methods.

The issue of course is that the doff system exists at all. They created a system that rewards you dilithium for just a small amount of time put in. It may not be much compared to what dedicated grinders can get out of it through other methods. But for time put in vs rewards out it''s the best system. The inhernt idea is therefore flawed.
You're criticizing them for implementing a system that uses the same resource it produces? um... what?
HAIL HYDRA!

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I can haz joystick!
MMOs aren't charities. Corporations are supposed to make a profit. It's what they do.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 633
# 293
10-22-2012, 09:35 AM
Dilithium prices will only remain low as long as their is an excess of it. For severla reasons starbases haven;t begun to exauhst the larger stockpiles out there and many larger fleets had a long period before T4/5 where they had contributions coming in so fast that m,any member couldn;t contribute leading to more stockpiles.

Quote:
you're still missing the point. the devs added it because fleet doffs are something players can get in arbitrarily large numbers for little cost. Having a cheap way to convert doffs that are nearly free to purples IS BROKEN.

Having an awesome roster is supposed to require either extreme luck or spending a fortune. That's just how the game works.

and NO I am not one of those players with a full roster of purples.....
Except not every player can get high quality doffs that way easilly.

Also stop stating opinion as fact. Being able to convert convert to purple doffs cheaply has been a basic fact of the game for a good while now. if it wasn;t working as intended it would have been fixed long ago. Finially to suggest that it's broken shows no knowlage fo what it takes. But then you wouldn;t know since you never bothered to try would you.


It takes 125 White doffs to get 1 purple. At current recruitment rates thats about a month per purple doff unless you can aquire other scources than the academy. In adittion you've no garuntee of a decent doff out of it, and as those numbers show. Your mythical method of combinding then uncombinding isn't cheap. Every time you hve to uncombined becuase it's a bad doff you add another 2 weeks to your aquisition time for a purple.

You'll never aquire a roster of all purple tis way. What it will let you do very cheaply is A) get a good roster of basic greens for SB construction and getting things like the colonial and embassy chains done. B) let you junk all the bad dofs you can't otherwise use in those assigments.

So kindly don;t coment on things you know nothing about, especially when it's by your own admission.

Without affordable grinders a good chunk of all recruitment must be binned. The rest can be put through various other means, but even then, without the grinders completing the chains for the repetable assignments is going to be harsh and the effects on SB's begger belif.

Lastly there's a major balance issue of purples get hard to aquire. It's going to make the IMBA in game even worse as high end purple doffs become the perview of a select few players and everyone else has to struggle by with whites and greens. It's goping to make properly balancing many abilities horrenduslly difficult. Do you think we'd be seeing the upcoming BFI change if everyone had been using green or white BFI doffs instead of Blues and Purples?


Quote:
You're criticizing them for implementing a system that uses the same resource it produces? um... what?
The problem is they decided to create a microtransaction based business model around an ingame currency that they then made easilly avalibile through doff'ing. That was never a smart buisness decishion. This is then coupled with the fact that doffing is ONLY worth it if you have a roster of mostly blues and purples. before that your rewards don;t justify the effort put into it.

Also like i pointed out. it's 30K per purple doff now through the grinders. You might say. So what, 4 days of hard grind isn't too bad. Well the catch is that we've got so much else to spend it on and doffing will take so long to earn that much initially, let alone earn it back after it's spent that it's n0t a valid setup. Doffing is now a sink with no real reward at the end if you use the grinders.

Bassiclly with this there's no point to doffing at all. Without a pre-built solid roster you get nothing out of the system and nown the input required to get said output means you then don't actyually get anything out of said output. the syste isn't worth using anymore.

Last edited by carl103; 10-22-2012 at 09:42 AM.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 12,997
# 294
10-22-2012, 09:52 AM
LOL!

125 is only if you use all whites. I can do math. I know how to use the compactor, I've used it a lot, especially for getting rid of common entertainers and advisors. But the existing cost to use the compactor once is trivial for compacting commons, and the new cost isn't very much. Personalyl I only use the compactor to get rid of extras, not as a shortcut to getting purples.

The Devs did in fact state their goals behind adding the compactor. So no, that isn't my opinion it's a matter of public record. (If you want to see it find the release notes for that patch) They also stated their reason for reducing the dil people could gain by dismising doffs.

The Doff system isn't built on the assumption that everyone has all purples. Some specific misisons might be, but not the vast majority of them.
HAIL HYDRA!

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
I can haz joystick!
MMOs aren't charities. Corporations are supposed to make a profit. It's what they do.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,922
# 295
10-22-2012, 10:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by carl103 View Post
@Dalolorn: as a former cashual doffer i cna tell you i gave up before i learned about the grinders. they where what got me into doffing, without semi-reliable crits and good ways of easilly raising your commendation total's, (often through said crits), doff'ing just dosen't give enough back to be worth putting any effort into.

TBH i think this change is aimed at peventing anyone from becoming a hardcore doffer. I earn an easy half a K per character with substandard doffs fed side as it is. Serious doffer's with lots of alts must be earning 1000's a day per character, 10's of K over the whole account, which if the number, (of players), reaching that standard continued to increae, (however slowly), would distort their dilithium grind money making methods.

The issue of course is that the doff system exists at all. They created a system that rewards you dilithium for just a small amount of time put in. It may not be much compared to what dedicated grinders can get out of it through other methods. But for time put in vs rewards out it''s the best system. The inhernt idea is therefore flawed.
Lol, you just don't get it, do you. I put in quite a bit of effort into that system trying to either get a fast lockbox ship (via Mk XII purple console sales), get the diplomatic uniform, or simply augment my gameplay.

BEFORE the compactor. By the time the compactor arrived, I'd either achieved most of my goals or gave up on them. Mostly the latter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by markhawkman View Post
you're still missing the point. the devs added it because fleet doffs are something players can get in arbitrarily large numbers for little cost. Having a cheap way to convert doffs that are nearly free to purples IS BROKEN.

Having an awesome roster is supposed to require either extreme luck or spending a fortune. That's just how the game works.

and NO I am not one of those players with a full roster of purples.....
Quoted for truth.

And I'm not a player with a full roster of purples either. About 10% purples, 20% blues, 50% greens, and the rest are white. With the basic 100-doff cap.
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Oh, lovely, I can't even requote the Douglas Adams quote I used to have here I WANT IT BACK!!!!
Dalo Lorn
DaloLorn, StarCraft 2 Roleplayer and proud of it.
Career Officer
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 953
# 296
10-22-2012, 10:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by markhawkman View Post
LOL!

125 is only if you use all whites. I can do math. I know how to use the compactor, I've used it a lot, especially for getting rid of common entertainers and advisors. But the existing cost to use the compactor once is trivial for compacting commons, and the new cost isn't very much. Personalyl I only use the compactor to get rid of extras, not as a shortcut to getting purples.

The Devs did in fact state their goals behind adding the compactor. So no, that isn't my opinion it's a matter of public record. (If you want to see it find the release notes for that patch) They also stated their reason for reducing the dil people could gain by dismising doffs.

The Doff system isn't built on the assumption that everyone has all purples. Some specific misisons might be, but not the vast majority of them.
Lol where on earth did they state their reasons for this change though? They didn't have the common decency to put that change in the official notes.

As I said before you're in the minority and I believe that our joint play experience outweighs yours. Simply put the Doff system is for the progression in quality of your doffs and the rewards to your xp that brings. That is what it is for to argue that the system was never meant for you to have all purples is a fallacy if that was the case they would have put a cap on the number of purples you could have per department. We all know that isn't the case.

I really don't think there is much more for you to say, you believe that the current amount of dilithium it costs is peanuts and that 5000 is fine for a purple. I know from 2 months of working on the doffs that the current dilithium charge is more than enough and the bottleneck on doffs is already prohibitive... I've only been playing two months and I already know how ridiculous it is to get purple doffs as it is, let alone if they make the up-grinder too expensive to use.

Most of us are against this change and it's time we got some answers.

Last edited by thisisoverlord; 10-22-2012 at 10:31 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 437
# 297
10-22-2012, 10:47 AM
well those of us who dont have t4 bases better stock up on white doffs and change then ASAP before this change happens on Holodeck!!!.. I know where I'll be tonight!
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 37
# 298
10-22-2012, 11:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinru821 View Post
well those of us who dont have t4 bases better stock up on white doffs and change then ASAP before this change happens on Holodeck!!!.. I know where I'll be tonight!
I'll be enjoying Halloween events in GW2, where the devs treat their customers with respect.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 53
# 299
10-22-2012, 11:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by otowi View Post
Cryptic/PWE/CBS; what in all that's holy were you thinking of when you thought this would be a good idea??

I'm seriously worried for STO right now, I really am.

I was right there when SOE/LA forced the NGE on the unsuspectingg player base, and look how that turned out in the end... What SOE/LA did was inexcuseable in so many ways, and utterly boneheaded.

Most of S 7 reminds me eerily of the thing that brought my beloved SWG down in flames, the NGE disaster.

Do not repeat their mistakes with these kind of quiet frankly idiotic changes. It will only end up hurting the game and not least the players.

This could easily turn into the last Season for STO if nothing is done....
^^ This

I've mentioned the Sony Online Entertainment Combat Upgrade / NGE in several of my posts, glad to see someone else has recognized this (disturbing) similarity.

If you never played Star Wars Galaxies, Google CU or NGE and read about that dark era in developer stupidity. Smedley even went on record stating the changes made to SWG was a big mistake on the Devs / Management's part.
--
No Star Trek Series went past Season 7.

Will Star Trek Online survive Season 7?
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 633
# 300
10-22-2012, 11:58 AM
Quote:
The Doff system isn't built on the assumption that everyone has all purples. Some specific misisons might be, but not the vast majority of them.
No it's not, but your rewards are so pitiful without at least a roster of blues that IT IS NOT WORTH BOTHERING WITH.

Take this from somone who played the game for 6 months before discovering the compactor. The rewards made it usless. They just don't exist. If you don;t have a roster of mostly blues or purples there smply isn't any point to the system. it's a total and utter waste of tiem and server/HDD space.

If you have a quote on intent. Link it. Otherwise shut up. Saying there';s on and then refusing to link it is unsourced claim.

Frankly this isn't about what right or nt. this is you throwing a tantrum because you had to do it the hard way and you don't like other's having shortcuts. Here's the catch. You might do it that way. 99% of people will just refuse and turn their backs on doff'ing. It's too much effort, and through the grinder too much Dil investment to be worth the all the work. I have a life so do the vast majority of the playerbase. I don't have a family fortunatly, but i suspect that a moderate portion of the playerbase do which cuts their time as well. STO is not a job to us. We will not sit in front of our PC's 8 hours a day grinding away on the doff system, or any other part of the game. If somthing gets to be too biga grind, we give up. We move on to somthing not so grindy.

Quote:
Quoted for truth.

And I'm not a player with a full roster of purples either. About 10% purples, 20% blues, 50% greens, and the rest are white. With the basic 100-doff cap.
A tiny handful of fleets are T4. or everyone else green doffs are about the best they can get. Given the huge FM/Dil grind this adds for Starbases working on T3 the number of adittional fleets that will hit T4 is going to drop sharply. The vast majority of the playerbase are NEVER going to have acess to Blue's and Purple's through their starbase. they just aren't large enough to complete the grind, especially with this added on top. So trying to use fleets as an argument is a teribble excuse because it's non-applicable to most.
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