Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,501
# 61
10-19-2012, 09:03 AM
The sucking drones are a powerful weapon and a Fed pug team can't do nothing against a skilled evil Klingun team. But, Fed comrades, we need to show these aggressive barbarians we aren't afraid to die and we want to fight until the last!
I am very sorry to see a Fed that leaves the arena when he realizes the battle is already lost at the start, because it will leave the remaining companions in a sure crushing defeat!
This is really dishonorable, not losing against an enemy stronger than you!
I understand that it all seems useless against a specialized sucking evil Klingun targ pack, but don't fight and flee is not worthy of a Fed Captain!
K D F - Killing Disadvantaged Feds
K D F - The evul way to play Sto

Adm. Marcus orders: Punish the evul Klinguns! Punish the evul HOBOs! And nuclearize Qo'nos once and for all!
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,015
# 62
10-19-2012, 09:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxottoman View Post
Repulse the siphon drones (primary problem)

The damage from TBR1 is roughly 1000 dps (TBR lasts 10 seconds) on a tactical buff with 6 points in particles OR two-three particle generator consoles. Not only are you pushing them away from you, but you are destroying them as well. Since field generators will prove ineffective if your shield power is drained, you're better off employing a hard counter particle generator for the following:

Repulsors gravitons are effected by aux power levels. The higher your power, the further the push. Since you're drained you won't be pushing them too far. However, particle generator component to this is not linked to aux power.

The damage from repulsors is kinetic bleed through. In fact, if transphasic mines/torps are also employed, this will tenfold be that much more effective.

Meaning, even if you are drained you are still doing enough damage to destroy the siphon drones.

A team with repulsors on their boffs will be extremely effective in countering them even in their current status of OP.

A carrier can launch siphons every 30 seconds, in effect once those siphons are destroyed (which they will be) by 1 ship using buffed repulsors. That carrier's effectiveness has been drastically impacted. If more siphons appear while that player's 45 second is in effect, then it is another player's turn to repulse and destroy. If this is cycled, coordinated, and executed correctly, then it will work.

Not theoretical, this has been tested.

Now I'm not going to say Power Siphons are "ok". They're not. The Devs say the samething, and I think everyone else says so too. This is a current rag tag solution we came up with.

-PaxOttomana of Turkish RP Heroes
Pax is right that TBR is a good choice because it doesn't require drones to be in a cluster and is still effective once you are being drained.

I don't know about the 30 second deployment, though. I haven't run a Kar'fi since flight deck doffs got a change but I know it was a hell of a lot faster than that when I was in one. The difference between pushing them away or destroying them was immaterial because I was going to try to redeploy them right on top of the target either way.

TBR is 10 second up, 45 down, so you're going to need a team, multiple copies, or both.
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 363
# 63
10-19-2012, 09:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by redricky View Post
Pax is right that TBR is a good choice because it doesn't require drones to be in a cluster and is still effective once you are being drained.

I don't know about the 30 second deployment, though. I haven't run a Kar'fi since flight deck doffs got a change but I know it was a hell of a lot faster than that when I was in one. The difference between pushing them away or destroying them was immaterial because I was going to try to redeploy them right on top of the target either way.

TBR is 10 second up, 45 down, so you're going to need a team, multiple copies, or both.
Right. But this is in noway considered or should be interpreted by the Devs as a "solution" to something that is subject to a (hopefully) severe nerf.

-PaxOttomana of Turkish RP Heroes (RP stands for binders full of women).
Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 663
# 64
10-19-2012, 09:51 AM
Repulsors target 3 targets at max if i read correctly so if a full klink team has all these energy drain gizmos, repulsors wont help that much. Another issue is that repulsors is an ability you cant control. It might even push away the target everyones shooting and hence the skill will interrupt and be a nuisance to your team.

Good thought though.
Co-founder of The Spanish Inquisition TSI - Cause no one expects it!

PaxOttomana: gawd mirror event is like fighting a tsi premade, they keep comin and comin!
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,764
# 65
10-19-2012, 10:05 AM
[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingscorpio78 View Post
This game is not primary team based (even if a lot of players think it is).
The PvE game is not until you reach endgame as all the STFs are designed for a team.

PvP is completely team based. That is why Teams tend to win over PuGs.




Quote:
U missed the point.
As did you. Under fire by multiple attackers means you are recieving 4 times the drain effects constantly. One person can not stand up to a team of players and the effects they can bring.

I can't fight a team of feds using the Danube pets, gravity well, TYkens rift, SNB, etc by myself and not expect to die under the constant onslaught of damage, CC, holds and subsystem targeting. Why would anybody expect to be able too?


Whats needs to be assesed in a non-biased experiment is if a single ship can drain-lock a player into not being able to take action first.
See if the abilities are broken for a single user before you get dogpiled by several users and call foul on the abilities as being OP.
Richard Hamilton (1975-2014)
goodbye good friend. We will see you in the DMZ in the sky oneday, save a shot for us.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,015
# 66
10-19-2012, 10:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by devorasx View Post
Repulsors target 3 targets at max if i read correctly so if a full klink team has all these energy drain gizmos, repulsors wont help that much. Another issue is that repulsors is an ability you cant control. It might even push away the target everyones shooting and hence the skill will interrupt and be a nuisance to your team.

Good thought though.
3 targets every pulse, which is every second. Tac buffed it should destroy the siphons and low aux means you won't push them too terribly far. We're not talking about screwing up an optional here, shuffleboarding the carrier a little won't piss off your team if you're clearing spam in the process.

Last edited by redricky; 10-19-2012 at 10:22 AM. Reason: Thought I was addressing a noob. My mistake.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 13,136
# 67
10-19-2012, 10:26 AM
TBR gets a bad rep because too many people do not know how to use it and they do not communicate that they are going to use it. They'll do it at random times... and you want to shoot them.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 27
# 68
10-19-2012, 10:35 AM
[quote=bitemepwe;6167441]
Quote:
As did you. Under fire by multiple attackers means you are recieving 4 times the drain effects constantly. One person can not stand up to a team of players and the effects they can bring.
Im talking about advanced siphon drones. In my vid there is only one carrier using it. How can the number of attackers multiply the effect of the asd?

Quote:
I can't fight a team of feds using the Danube pets, gravity well, TYkens rift, SNB, etc by myself and not expect to die under the constant onslaught of damage, CC, holds and subsystem targeting. Why would anybody expect to be able too?
Use 2x APO, Polarize Hull, TBR, EPS-Consoles and spent ur skillpoints into the right skills and all of this evil fed spam is laughable

Quote:
Whats needs to be assesed in a non-biased experiment is if a single ship can drain-lock a player into not being able to take action first.
See if the abilities are broken for a single user before you get dogpiled by several users and call foul on the abilities as being OP.
Just watch the full vid. U can see that i first get siphoned at 1:24 http://youtu.be/4lKf6qtdIF0?t=1m24s.
And from this time on all abilities that should increase all or one subsystems power level just do nothing, and that is just broken.
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 363
# 69
10-19-2012, 10:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by devorasx View Post
Repulsors target 3 targets at max if i read correctly so if a full klink team has all these energy drain gizmos, repulsors wont help that much. Another issue is that repulsors is an ability you cant control. It might even push away the target everyones shooting and hence the skill will interrupt and be a nuisance to your team.

Good thought though.
Good, so assemble a team. We'll test it on you like we did. And prove it to you that way.

If you weren't inapt to accepting the findings we took the effort to discover, then perhaps you should not of asked for clarification if you cannot grasp that clarification as something tested and proven effective.

Thanks.

PaxOttomana.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,764
# 70
10-19-2012, 10:43 AM
[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingscorpio78 View Post

Im talking about advanced siphon drones. In my vid there is only one carrier using it. How can the number of attackers multiply the effect of the asd?
I saw two carriers in the video.
How do you know the other team wasn't using more drain related abilities on you. You where under attack by 4 foes yet only give account that the ASD where why you where drained so much.
I theorize it was multiple drains from multiple game mechanics and you merely suffered the total effect from all at once.

This does not nmean drain is perfectly balanced. It may not be. It does show that you can't gauge the drain mechanics off of one combat where the target (you) is dogpiled by multiple attackers.

Quote:
Use 2x APO, Polarize Hull, TBR, EPS-Consoles and spent ur skillpoints into the right skills and all of this evil fed spam is laughable
Good. Then knowing how the game works, some idea of how abilities work, you too should be able to fend off a solo Drain boat with a just as cleverly devised series of counters.

BTW, the above use of abilities does help though you will still get held as the shuttles out number you. Unless you break the TB very quickly and flee combat you as a single players against many will succumb to the dogpile.

I also noticed you where suffering constant debuffs from several effects, not the Siphon drones well before they where even used against you. You lost shields once for a second but gained them back when EPTS was hit and lost Auxillary as well for a brief time.
One is most certainly the Plasmonic Leech, The other I can not tell (some red icon on a orange tabard) the htird and fourth ones that kept popping up I can not read.

As well, you kept your base shields at 50 strength with 100 in weapons and changed shortly afterwards to a base 25 power for shields and a 100 for Auxillary. How is EPTS going help your shields if your base is so low to begin with? Siphon is not a shield debuff so EPTS does not counter it directly, it only pumps power to the drain system.

For many reasons I do not think yopur video is a genuine representation of teh effects of Siphon drones and other factors played in your doing poorly in that combat.


as a side note: YOur video is from 9/3/2012 and the Siphon drones are due to be tweaked further towards balance since you made this video.
Richard Hamilton (1975-2014)
goodbye good friend. We will see you in the DMZ in the sky oneday, save a shot for us.

Last edited by bitemepwe; 10-19-2012 at 11:34 AM.
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