Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,020
# 11
10-19-2012, 07:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
Some interesting responses so far.




The above quote is the very definition of too narrow and niche of a usage for what is a power on a "one size fits all" design.


You need to:

1) Be a Tac
2) Have particle generators
3) Most likely, but not necessarily, be flying a Sci ship (as few escorts or cruiser builds are going to have a use for particle generators).

This, along with the 3 min CD and single target only limitation is why Graviton Beam is generally regarded as terrible.
I disagree - if you're Sci, chances are you're semi-specced into this already so you can make some use out of the Heavy Graviton Beam.

If you're Tac/Eng and you want to use it then you'll have to tinker with your build a bit (and honestly, I don't see anything wrong with that).

Fully specced for max damage with all Tac abilities running, it hits (non-crit) for around 15,000 (50% shield penetration) - if they buff it any more, for Tacs at least it'll potentially be a one-hit kill (it already can be if it crits).

The problem isn't the HGB - it's the insane multipliers Tacs get.
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,063
# 12
10-19-2012, 07:35 AM
I don't have too much experience with the sets so I can't comment on them. Why is this?

Because most of the "active" set powers, and many of the "passive" ones, just aren't worth anything. For instance, the Reman set's bonuses are quite literally, as I recall, virtually inconsequential, and come at an unacceptably steep price given the individual set pieces.

I'm not sure I can suggest much, but the active three-minute worth-nothing powers aren't even worth me looking at, and the passives really need a boost badly (and some of them need to be outright replaced). As-is, some of these set pieces are an active burden to be carrying around when all is said and done and the actual capabilities of the pieces are brought along.

There's also the issue of sets that basically no one uses - the Breen set comes to mind. That one you might want to give some thought. It's not considered fit for an end-game set by anyone I've asked, and you don't get to it until late in the game considering the level requirements just to play the missions that reward it. Aegis was a favorite of mine until I saw how it paled compared to the 3 Borg + MACO combo.

I'm not against some of these changes, but please keep it in mind. I guess you could look at this post as encouragement, if what you're doing is what it looks like you are, to me.
Cryptic Studios Team
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,138
# 13
10-19-2012, 08:44 AM
Yesterday, we performed another tuning pass on the set bonuses associated with these high-end sets. The changes we settled on are conservative (mostly), but we think that players will enjoy the increase in effectiveness that all of these powers will receive. Here are the details of what should show up on Tribble soon:

MACO:

2-Piece -
* For the time being, we've chosen to not increase the cooldown reduction offered by this bonus. Because it impacts too many different cooldowns, making it larger than 5% can lead to some scaling issues. Instead, we're looking at possibly adding another passive effect alongside it, and would welcome suggestions.

3-Piece -
* We've chosen to not increase the damage dealt by this ability, as it was never intended for the damage component to be its primary source of utility.
* Knockback has been increased.
* Added Engines Offline and Weapons Offline effects, to go alongside the existing Aux Offline.

OMEGA:

2-Piece -
* No changes for the time being, but we're looking into it.
* One problem with the current Tetryon Glider is that it drains all four facings simultaneously. We're considering changing it to only drain the facing that is hit, which would allow us to also increase the magnitude of the effect a bit.

3-Piece -
* We're increasing the speed of the projectile by a large amount.
* Many have asked for the Kinetic Debuff and Defense Debuff magnitudes to swap places, but that's unlikely to occur. Keep in mind that enemy NPCs have an innate Defense value that is not based on their speed alone. Debuffing that, even all the way into negative figures, allows any innate Accuracy you may possess to spill over into Crit bonuses at a higher rate. Also, this is effectively a full-team buff. We believe the magnitude of the effects scale well enough in a team setting that increasing them would be a bad idea.

KHG:

2-Piece -
* We haven't reviewed the data on this one yet, but also haven't heard many complaints about it, if any. It may be fine as-is.

3-Piece -
* This power wasn't quite functioning in a way that we wanted it to, and so portions of it have been rebuilt. We're still not completely sure that it's up to snuff, and are definitely keeping an eye on it.
* It is now more like an AOE Enhanced Battle Cloak, but also allows Energy Weapons to be fired. If you are under the effects of the Mask Energy Field, and fire a weapon, you will be revealed for a couple seconds before the effect takes hold again. Unlike an EBC, your shields stay active while stealthed.
* The effect lasts 30 seconds and has a recharge of 120 seconds, allowing for frequent up-time.
* Even if the stealth effect is not active on you (because you are firing weapons, or are being fired upon), you will still benefit from the +Defense bonus it offers.

ALL SETS:

We were planning to surprise folks with this news when we released the Omega Reputation, but in the interest of the ongoing balance discussions, I'll go ahead and let the cat out of the bag...

We've decided to introduce cross-faction sets. But, let me clarify...

Upon reach Tier 5 in Omega Reputation, players will now unlock the ability to earn an "Adapted" version of their faction's Ground and Space Sets, each of which confer the exact same stats as their counterpart. In other words, the Adapted MACO Space Set will have the exact same stats and effects as the existing Klingon Honor Guard Space Set, while maintaining the cosmetic appearance of the MACO set.

The Adapted Ground Sets will actually have a new costume attached to them that has not yet been released. Another variant of the existing MACO and KHG armors. And again, just to be clear, this does not mean you'll see Federation players wearing Klingon outfits and vice versa - they will still appear cosmetically as the appropriate faction, and simply possess the stats & bonuses of the opposite faction.

This move is being done in order to bring some parity to the faction-specific sets. Hopefully allowing all players to have access to the effects of all of the sets will allow for more universal feedback and a more balanced gameplay experience.
-=-=-=-=-=-
Jeremy Randall
Cryptic - Systems Design
"Play smart!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Me
Kurland here...
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 14
10-19-2012, 08:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by weylandjuarez View Post
I disagree - if you're Sci, chances are you're semi-specced into this already so you can make some use out of the Heavy Graviton Beam.
If you're Sci the power is weak damage wise.


Quote:
Originally Posted by weylandjuarez View Post
If you're Tac/Eng and you want to use it then you'll have to tinker with your build a bit (and honestly, I don't see anything wrong with that).

What's wrong with it is that it is exceedingly niche focused and is the 3rd tier power of a very small handful of available STF sets.

Archoncryptic has stated that they can't design sets to fit all builds all of the time, and I generally agree with that assessment.

So if that is the case, then designing a power with such a very limited niche focus on a 3 min CD is a problem.





Quote:
Originally Posted by weylandjuarez View Post
Fully specced for max damage with all Tac abilities running, it hits (non-crit) for around 15,000 (50% shield penetration) - if they buff it any more, for Tacs at least it'll potentially be a one-hit kill (it already can be if it crits).


Again, too niche and requires too much investment for a 3rd Tier set power - if this were simply a Sci BOFF power on a 30s or 60s CD, then it would be completely fine.

Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,494
# 15
10-19-2012, 08:56 AM
My issue with the kdf space sets are that the only way to get the enhanced warp drive (go above warp 10) is with the Borg engines.
The khg engines dot have a useful ability so why not give it the enhanced warp drive as well?
Cryptic Studios Team
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,138
# 16
10-19-2012, 08:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chalpen View Post
The khg engines dot have a useful ability so why not give it the enhanced warp drive as well?
I highly disagree that the Hot Restart is not a "useful ability" -- it basically guarantees that all Engines Offline status effects last 1sec or less. In point of fact, it's the only STF Set engine that has an In-Combat bonus (unless you count Aegis) making it arguably more valuable than the others.
-=-=-=-=-=-
Jeremy Randall
Cryptic - Systems Design
"Play smart!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Me
Kurland here...
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 85
# 17
10-19-2012, 09:11 AM
I agree. Disabled engines are a death sentence for an escort and with the rampant disable spam in pvp nowadays, I find the KHG engines help me survive more than most anything else.
Ensign
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 16
# 18
10-19-2012, 09:37 AM
I have been keeping my MK XII tech drops in the hope the future would see something at least HALF decent compared to the MACO and OMEGA (and KHG to a lesser extend since you have to switch to Borg to go beyond transwarp 10 in sector space).
You nerf BORG set, ok, it was, 2.5 years after the release of the game still the best set in game...And what are you doing exactly? You review something crappy in case you could make it less crappy?

Bring the sets in line with Fleet weapons, give each set a decent power like the (current but not for long) BORG 2 piece and 3 piece ones, then people will complain less with the sets, instead of revamping the old crappy ones.

MACO and OMEGA had nothing to offer to PVE people. Less love for PvPers please who called for many nerfs and got them all: Engineers switching kits (other classes can still do it and keep the benefits and I do NOT call for a nerf on that), Sci powers, Tholian ground PSG MK XII and many more.

Stop nerfing, create (and improve the stuff you have if you wish, but I mean really improve it!) to please the whole player base, not just PvPers.

Thanks.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,020
# 19
10-19-2012, 09:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
Upon reach Tier 5 in Omega Reputation, players will now unlock the ability to earn an "Adapted" version of their faction's Ground and Space Sets, each of which confer the exact same stats as their counterpart. In other words, the Adapted MACO Space Set will have the exact same stats and effects as the existing Klingon Honor Guard Space Set, while maintaining the cosmetic appearance of the MACO set.
That's it? Seriously?

Why?

Omega is already the cross-faction set - why would you need to make MACO/KHG cross faction?

I mean, I get that some KDF players might want MACO and some Feds might want KHG but having these sets faction exclusive gives each faction something unique (and yeah, I play Fed and KDF).

There was nothing wrong with how things were and if anything, once again you're giving people less reason to play KDF.

Dumb move - really dumb.

And once again, it's a glaring example of trying to pass off old content as 'new' - the only work that's being done here is texture mapping - do you even have any designers or programmers left working on STO??
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Last edited by weylandjuarez; 10-19-2012 at 09:48 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 633
# 20
10-19-2012, 09:50 AM
My thoughts in red text, any suggestions in green:

Yesterday, we performed another tuning pass on the set bonuses associated with these high-end sets. The changes we settled on are conservative (mostly), but we think that players will enjoy the increase in effectiveness that all of these powers will receive. Here are the details of what should show up on Tribble soon:

MACO:

2-Piece -
* For the time being, we've chosen to not increase the cooldown reduction offered by this bonus. Because it impacts too many different cooldowns, making it larger than 5% can lead to some scaling issues. Instead, we're looking at possibly adding another passive effect alongside it, and would welcome suggestions.

I suggested a small passive wepaon energy drain resistance, this gives everyone an advanatge, but since the MACO set is most likliy to be used by tanking Cruisers, they get the biggest benefit.

3-Piece -
* We've chosen to not increase the damage dealt by this ability, as it was never intended for the damage component to be its primary source of utility.
* Knockback has been increased.
* Added Engines Offline and Weapons Offline effects, to go alongside the existing Aux Offline.

Meaningless change is meaningless. The ability is on a 3minute CD and it's single target. Even if it hurled the target 15KM away, they'll be back before it's off CD. I can simply take a single copy of TBR1 and get an AoE vershion with rapid cooldown. Ineed the single target nature of this is a reall killer as well. Th offline on weapons and Engines is nice-ish, but given the cooldown and the ultra-short duration, it's still somewhat of a token affect over the duration of a ful mission.

Reduce the CD to 60 seconds and make it hit every target in the 90 degree cone. You can freely drop the rest of the debuffs if you do tha IMHO, i wouldn't miss them.

OMEGA:

2-Piece -
* No changes for the time being, but we're looking into it.
* One problem with the current Tetryon Glider is that it drains all four facings simultaneously. We're considering changing it to only drain the facing that is hit, which would allow us to also increase the magnitude of the effect a bit.

Intresting idea, didn't know you could limit them to 1 facing only, if you can and as long as you scale the magnitude sufficentlly for the PvP crowd this should work.

3-Piece -
* We're increasing the speed of the projectile by a large amount.
* Many have asked for the Kinetic Debuff and Defense Debuff magnitudes to swap places, but that's unlikely to occur. Keep in mind that enemy NPCs have an innate Defense value that is not based on their speed alone. Debuffing that, even all the way into negative figures, allows any innate Accuracy you may possess to spill over into Crit bonuses at a higher rate. Also, this is effectively a full-team buff. We believe the magnitude of the effects scale well enough in a team setting that increasing them would be a bad idea.

I agree here on the magnitude, but there's a huge issue. it's 10 seconds of uptime, on a 3minute CD, the end boost is marginal even if everyone coordinates fire and you've got a sutibale target to use it on. If eitheir of those isn't true it's just downright usless.

Take a cue from your own KHG 3pc change. Make it a 20-30 second uptime on a 120 seciond CD. That opens the window for it's benefits to kick in much more, and helps give it better uptime. Still dosen't help if you've got a large number of targets, (a lot of fleet actions and the new nebulae rescue if what i've heard about the latter is true), but it's a big help against any powerful single target.

KHG:

2-Piece -
* We haven't reviewed the data on this one yet, but also haven't heard many complaints about it, if any. It may be fine as-is.

Actually this bonus is very poor and very obviouslly so. Most non-Scis's/B'rel Refit players don't run torp boats so to them this set is tottlaly worthless given the current 3pc, (see below for my comments on your change). So whilst you won't have heard anything about it, thats becuase no one care's about it for the most part IMHO. The basic problem is that the crew benefit isn't worth anything in reality, you lose crew too easilly and quickly for it to actually matter. hat eans only the torp benefit is worth anything and unless your runing a torp boat thats a bit lackluster.

I honestly don't have any easy suggestions, the basic problem is that you need to give it some kind of benefit to non-torpedoe boats, but it's not clear how that should come about IMHO. There's nothing to simply buff or extend e.t.c. here.

3-Piece -
* This power wasn't quite functioning in a way that we wanted it to, and so portions of it have been rebuilt. We're still not completely sure that it's up to snuff, and are definitely keeping an eye on it.
* It is now more like an AOE Enhanced Battle Cloak, but also allows Energy Weapons to be fired. If you are under the effects of the Mask Energy Field, and fire a weapon, you will be revealed for a couple seconds before the effect takes hold again. Unlike an EBC, your shields stay active while stealthed.
* The effect lasts 30 seconds and has a recharge of 120 seconds, allowing for frequent up-time.
* Even if the stealth effect is not active on you (because you are firing weapons, or are being fired upon), you will still benefit from the +Defense bonus it offers.

VERy good change, no complaints. With a solid uptime and serious benefits for the whole team it's only downside is the limited radius. But i see that as an acepptable tradeoff.


ALL SETS:

We were planning to surprise folks with this news when we released the Omega Reputation, but in the interest of the ongoing balance discussions, I'll go ahead and let the cat out of the bag...

We've decided to introduce cross-faction sets. But, let me clarify...

Upon reach Tier 5 in Omega Reputation, players will now unlock the ability to earn an "Adapted" version of their faction's Ground and Space Sets, each of which confer the exact same stats as their counterpart. In other words, the Adapted MACO Space Set will have the exact same stats and effects as the existing Klingon Honor Guard Space Set, while maintaining the cosmetic appearance of the MACO set.

The Adapted Ground Sets will actually have a new costume attached to them that has not yet been released. Another variant of the existing MACO and KHG armors. And again, just to be clear, this does not mean you'll see Federation players wearing Klingon outfits and vice versa - they will still appear cosmetically as the appropriate faction, and simply possess the stats & bonuses of the opposite faction.

This move is being done in order to bring some parity to the faction-specific sets. Hopefully allowing all players to have access to the effects of all of the sets will allow for more universal feedback and a more balanced gameplay experience.

Nice change, does this mean only the borg set is getting a full second set that can sit alongside existing stes? I'd been thinking of starting a shread of random idea's for you on that, (though i'm sure you have plenty anyway, was going to be a for fun thing realy).



Quote:
I highly disagree that the Hot Restart is not a "useful ability" -- it basically guarantees that all Engines Offline status effects last 1sec or less. In point of fact, it's the only STF Set engine that has an In-Combat bonus (unless you count Aegis) making it arguably more valuable than the others.
2 problems with this.

1. High warp is an out of combat benefit, the disable immunity is in combat, they have diffrent applications and advantages.

2. Very littile NPC's, (or indeed players), can bring will disable your engines, so it's not a huge benefit becuase you just don;t encounter anything that gets much use out of it often.
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