Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,506
# 1 Weapon Combinations
08-13-2013, 03:40 PM
Hi there,

here comes one of my very interesting questions again:

I am equipping some of my ships (every type) now with weapons and gears.

What about the Turrets? A lot of people equip 2,3 Turrets on most of their ships, but I have seen some Excelsior and Odyssey builds where people use beams in aft. I know they do it for the broadside, so does that mean that it is better to equip bigger cruisers with beams in aft?

I have my Escorts equipped with Cannons and Turrets, my Science ships with (Dual) Beams and Turrets (and depending on slots also with one Torpedo), and my Cruisers depending on the Turn Rate with one or two Dual Beams, or just Beams. So I am not sure now about the efficiency of Turrets on a slow turning cruiser.

I must say I am using standard items. No Reputation or Mission given ones. Just plain Exchange or Store stuff.

Thanks for clarification.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 227
# 2 Not necessarily
08-13-2013, 06:16 PM
Broadside beam boats are a thing of the past IMO.

With the new consoles from the asteroid fleet store my cruiser now turns like an agile science ship almost like an escort with NO sacrifices.

I have always used 3 dual beam arrays forward and 3 turrets rear for maximum dps on a cruiser. I have been tinkering with 2 dual arrays and 2 torps and 4 turrets rear and am finding the DPS to be very good as well..especially in stf's.

Still tons better then 6 beam arrays ....even with FaW...which I find a waste of energy already except on 1v1 situations.
Napoleon's final defeat came at Waterloo. Must've been embarrassing. You're the f'ing emperor. You conquered all of Europe, only to lose in a place with a stupid name like Waterloo. Or Watergate, or Whitewater. Note to politicans: Stay on land.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,329
# 3
08-14-2013, 04:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by organicmanfred View Post
Hi there,

here comes one of my very interesting questions again:

I am equipping some of my ships (every type) now with weapons and gears.

What about the Turrets? A lot of people equip 2,3 Turrets on most of their ships, but I have seen some Excelsior and Odyssey builds where people use beams in aft. I know they do it for the broadside, so does that mean that it is better to equip bigger cruisers with beams in aft?

I have my Escorts equipped with Cannons and Turrets, my Science ships with (Dual) Beams and Turrets (and depending on slots also with one Torpedo), and my Cruisers depending on the Turn Rate with one or two Dual Beams, or just Beams. So I am not sure now about the efficiency of Turrets on a slow turning cruiser.

I must say I am using standard items. No Reputation or Mission given ones. Just plain Exchange or Store stuff.

Thanks for clarification.
If you are broadsiding then you have essentially said "I do not really intend to deal damage I just want to clear spam and be a utility boat." because that is what it is good for. If you actually intend to deal damage then you should throw on Dual Beam Banks and turrets or Single Cannons and turrets (if you have high enough BOFF powers to use with Cannons) and get some actual DPS.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,489
# 4
08-14-2013, 07:15 AM
Personally, as a career Big Ships captain, I have to disagree. Beam boats have never been more practical.

Beam arrays have decent damage per second. Not amazing, but higher than a turret, and you can get all of them on your ship focused on the same target. All beam arrays have a similar DPS to a mixed set of dual beams + turrets. The problem has always been that beams in general, and arrays in particular, are HORRENDOUSLY inefficient which has always limited their actual damage output quite badly due to your power levels tanking as soon as you open fire.

That issue has been mitigated somewhat, by
* new warp cores
* engineer trait
* doffs to reduce battery cooldowns
* wider availability of plasmonic leech
* 2-part omega set proc

And more.

Basically, as long as you can keep your power levels maxed out, beam arrays outperform other options if you can broadside at close range. The fact that ship agility is also easier than ever before to achieve thanks to the overhaul in RCS mechanics and the new [+Turn] armor contributes to taking up and maintaining the proper firing position for broadsiding.

There's a final two points I'd like to make. One for, and one against. The argument for beam boats is that by having your strong firing arc be on the side of your ship, you can maintain speed and orbit your target, which means you maintain a strong defense bonus. Having a narrow forward firing arc forces you to do nothing more than "yo yo" which doesn't carry as much of a benefit. The argument against beam boats is that beam tactics are still just as crap as ever compared to cannon tactics. Overload has pointless long term output. The subtargeting abilities are unreliable and of questionable. And fire at will not only carries a built in cost in power (for no reason except that Cryptic really really hates beams), but it sprays hits all over everything in a complete sphere unlike scatter volley which focuses its damage in a constructive way.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,506
# 5
08-14-2013, 10:03 AM
Hello,

at first I want to say thank you very much for all your help, infos, and personal tips.
Those will help me building my ships a lot much better than I did before. And I am more confident now to use DBBs.

Yes I know, a ship is only as good as her Captain's skills.

I am waiting for our Dillithium Mine to reach T3 and then I am going to buy a few items those I will put only on the whale ships like Odyssey and Atrox.

Currently I am using the Tachyokinetic Converter for Turn Rate and the Rule 62 Multipurpose Combat Console/or an EPS Flow Capacitor for the Energy Transfer Rate. And I avaid to use too much Armor/Alloy/Hull consoles for the big ones because of their already strong Hull.

If someone has experience with the Advanced Dilitihium Mine Items (RCS, Neutronium, Warp Core) I would love to hear some suggestions of Mod combinations on how to get the most out of them. I want to ovoid spending console slots for to much of the common consoles.

Thank you very much
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 186
# 6
08-14-2013, 02:19 PM
Quote:
Basically, as long as you can keep your power levels maxed out, beam arrays outperform other options if you can broadside at close range. The fact that ship agility is also easier than ever before to achieve thanks to the overhaul in RCS mechanics and the new [+Turn] armor contributes to taking up and maintaining the proper firing position for broadsiding.
While I won't go as far too say that broadsides are useless (far from it), saying they 'outperform other options' is a misrepresentation. Using Mk0 weapons for simplicity, a 8x broadside ship will do 640 DPS for 70 power draw. An escort with 3 DHCs and 3 turrets, plus a photon will do 778 dps, assuming you can contrive to strip the facing shield by the time your torpedo strikes hull (a foregone conclusion against most enemies). The effects of better BOFF powers available to escort type hulls only skews the parity from there. While BFAW is an excellent ability, it's hampered by longer minimum cooldown and random targeting.

When you're playing a cruiser, you're making a statement about your role: You're not there for personal glory, you're there to make your team perform better. Your indiscriminate beam fire draws aggro from your more fragile teammates, making maneuver and survival easier, and allowing them to spend more time killing and less reacquiring targets. In addition, ANY beam boat should run with Attack Pattern Beta, which in concert with BFAW will debuff everything in range of your weaponry. Finally, light units like frigates and fighters will melt before your fire.

My advice is ultimately this: Go with Beams OR Cannons, don't mix and match. You want to optimize your build to make the best use of your BOFF abilities. The Excelsior only has 3 Tactical BOFF abilities. That should be used on (IMO): Tactical Team I, BFAW II, and ABP II. Most players would recommend going A2B on that build, to ensure your energy overcapping and faster cooldowns.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 680
# 7
08-15-2013, 11:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hasukurobi View Post
If you are broadsiding then you have essentially said "I do not really intend to deal damage I just want to clear spam and be a utility boat." because that is what it is good for. If you actually intend to deal damage then you should throw on Dual Beam Banks and turrets or Single Cannons and turrets (if you have high enough BOFF powers to use with Cannons) and get some actual DPS.
What a load of total BS!

I run a classic aux2bat "beam boat" (see Build here) and I out-DPS virtually everyone in every ESTF I run. The exception is usually when someone has a fleet of advanced "pets" supplementing their own output - for example, the Rommie Scimi that was flying alongside me in an ISE PUG speed run where we cleared out the entire mission in 4:42 seconds (and where only three of us topped 10K - the other two were dead weight and just trying to stay the hell out of the way).

His "minions" added 6K to his total - otherwise, I owned that ESTF. Properly configured, an aux2bat "beam boat" is a nasty beast. Discount one at your peril!

RCK

Last edited by rck01; 08-15-2013 at 11:06 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,506
# 8
08-15-2013, 11:21 AM
Thank you very much for all your detailed infos. !
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,329
# 9
08-15-2013, 02:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rck01 View Post
What a load of total BS!

I run a classic aux2bat "beam boat" (see Build here) and I out-DPS virtually everyone in every ESTF I run. The exception is usually when someone has a fleet of advanced "pets" supplementing their own output - for example, the Rommie Scimi that was flying alongside me in an ISE PUG speed run where we cleared out the entire mission in 4:42 seconds (and where only three of us topped 10K - the other two were dead weight and just trying to stay the hell out of the way).

His "minions" added 6K to his total - otherwise, I owned that ESTF. Properly configured, an aux2bat "beam boat" is a nasty beast. Discount one at your peril!

RCK
Broadsiding Beam Array boats never reach the same level of damage output as Turrets and DBB's. They can run A2B as well you realize but deliver far more punch than those weak beam arrays which nuke their own damage output.

Also I have forever laughed in PvP when running into one because they only barely tickle my shields while I turn them into dust in a split second.
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