Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 22
After playing on Tribble a while and reaching Tier 1 in the Omega Force system I see a couple of potential problems with the new system. The one that I find the biggest is the dilithium requirement for some projects. under the old system I used to be able to pick up EDCs to turn them into tech to pick up an MKX or MKXI MACO, Honor Guard or Omega piece or just get the Tech at random, under the new system I have to unlock projects commit resources to these projects which includes 6,500 Dilthium for each MKX MACO piece which turns out to be 19,500 dilithium for the complete ground set and 20,000 dilithium for each space part MKX which costs 60,000 dilithium for the entire space set and these numbers increase substantially increase at MKXI and MKXII. Furthermore, after committing resources to these projects and the time that it takes to complete, I would have to spend another x amount of dilithium to actually get the piece after finishing the project. As it currently stands now these requirements will have a negative effect on gameplay. For smaller fleets especially it would slow fleet starbase progression because if 5 people for example, contribute to fleet projects they grind heavily to earn the necessary resources needed to start these projects; this takes a heavy toll on earning dilithium and contributing to building a fleet Starbase. With the current Reputation system requirements this will cause people to shift their focus from contributing to fleet projects to contribute solely on the Reputation system therefore, slowing or halting production of the starbase. This may not be an issue for large fleets because the more people in a fleet the more spread out the contributions are, smaller fleets however, are strained as it is. Please review these current numbers to come up with a solution that it does not damage fleet progression for smaller fleets; I cannot stress this enough. I would like to suggest: once MACO projects are complete instead of paying to start the project just to unlock the piece in the store then to pay dilithium to get that piece in the store, as an alternative can we please obtain the tech from completing that project and that we can use in the store to grab the gear? If we wanted to grab the same piece of a different set we can just re-run the project It would be similar to how it was before where if we received a Rare Borg Engine Tech for example we can go with that tech to DS9 to pick up the MKXI Engine. This will help greatly in reducing the amount of grind and makes much more sense, as it currently stands right now it feels as if I am double paying to get the gear.

In addition, the dilithium rewards have been reduced on Elite STFs from getting 1,100 dilthium down to 480. Under the new system, there is a project that allows us to trade 5 Borg Nerual Processors for 1000 dilithium, we only get 1 processor per run so, that's basically like instead of getting 5500 dilithium from 5 STF Elite runs to only getting 2400 dilithium plus an additional 1000 dilithium for completing the project. With these numbers currently on Tribble it appears to require a huge amount of grind. To be honest, as a player, I would want to log into a game to have fun not to log into a game because I have work to do. As it is now it feels like the game is turning into a game that is like a job. Furthermore, there are some Reputation Projects that require common doffs, this will have also have a negitive impact on fleet progress as well. To acquire common doffs it's pricy as it is I have to go to the Exchange or try to convert 5 green doffs for 1 common doffs. Currently fleet projects require 30 common doffs at tier 1 or 180 for tier 2, these numbers already take a toll on how people contribute to fleet projects and a strain on resources. These projects may have looked good on paper however, from a players' perspective these numbers should really be reviewed.
The Second problem I see with the systems is they only unlock at level 50. If I create an alt and work my way up in the ranks I really think level 50 to start the reputation system is too high. I can understand Omega Force because STFs only unlock at Rear Admiral. Since the Reputation system is about building a reputation with the Romulans could it be possible to unlock the system once we reach the Romulan missions or once we reach Captain? I think earning Romulan Marks alongside of playing the Romulan missions would add to immersion and value to playing those missions. If it would not work with the entire Romulan story arc can Romulan Marks be added to the Featured Series Cloaked Intention missions at the very least? On the Omega Force system, if I play STFs when they open up at Rear Admiral rank can I obtain Omega Marks before the system opens up at level 50 or do I only earn marks at level 50 when that system is unlocked?

Thank you devs for taking the time to read my post . I know that was a long read but, I wanted to share my concerns about what I have noticed on Tribble so, it can be reviewed before it goes live.
Actual join date: Aug 2010
1000+ day veteran
Career Officer
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 953
# 222
10-27-2012, 01:09 PM
Needs more paragraphs

I agree with you though.

This is not great for casual players, someone who is playing say a few hours on the weekend and an hour or two every other day or day will find this going to take forever as they won't even be hitting the 8k dilithium a day needed to get this done in 60-90 days.

To be honest, the removal of random chance is fine, though I would have preferred to keep it and optionally allow people to trade in Edc for MKXII gear instead. But I think they want to stretch out end game content to fill the gap between now and Season 8 when a lot more new content should be available.

I also think if they were going to go with a reputation system it would have been better to grant unique Omega XP for each mission and use that as the main resource sink in the tiers rather than using Dilithium which is already stretched as it is often being used against it's original purpose of giving F2Pr's a chane to buy items from the C-Store.

Last edited by thisisoverlord; 10-27-2012 at 01:16 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,209
# 223
10-27-2012, 01:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by admiraljohn1701 View Post
In addition, the dilithium rewards have been reduced on Elite STFs from getting 1,100 dilthium down to 480. Under the new system, there is a project that allows us to trade 5 Borg Nerual Processors for 1000 dilithium, we only get 1 processor per run so, that's basically like instead of getting 5500 dilithium from 5 STF Elite runs to only getting 2400 dilithium plus an additional 1000 dilithium for completing the project.
Not particularly happy with these numbers. I know the devs are working on ways to monetize the game, but bolting on requirements to existing things and removing rewards from the existing gameplay instead of coming out with actually new things to put that money towards is not going to get Cryptic on mine or many other player's good side. Romulan Reputation requiring Dil and giving out little is fine, it's new at least.

As far as delaying the Fleet projects, that's what they want. If your fleet doesn't have a heavy spender propping it up, you're not going to get anywhere. Even in larger fleets most don't contribute Dil as it's far too valuable on a personal level already(Mostly as Dil->Zen conversion, but still).
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 62
# 224
10-27-2012, 03:16 PM
I'm just copying my thoughts from the blog 10 thread. I didnt want to start ranting again:

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My biggest concern is that these changes is that it removes any incentives for playing the STFs. Once a player has the nessisary marks to start a reputation 'mission' theres no reason to play again or put in an extra effort.

Granted, there is dilithium and gear rewards, but they've NEVER been a proper incentive. Lets face it, almost everything rewards dilithium and there's a daily limit and you would be hard pressed to find ANY gear that would sell for much more then it's vendor cost on the exchange unless it's MKXII purple. It's turning the missions from repeatable mission, chance of reward to: Show up, do forced grind, pick up reward at end of the week.

Your odds of picking up something good may SUCK with the current system but there's no limit to how much, or little, effort you can put in. If I wanted to spend 3 days straight trying to get a MKXII drop I could, the new system prevents that.

In addition, the missions them selves are going to have an extra cost... which is an extra cost that we have to deal with in addition to the Starbase and Embassy expenses going on in the fleets.

This is the same reason I HATED the S6 content released for the starbases. Instead of offering rewards for doing the new missions, they were introduced as a forced grind required to do the starbase projects. They may be entertaining, but when all the projects are filled when I get on... there's no reason for me to play them. I've played consistantly since STO was released and I have to say, I really had no interest in the new content with S6 because of this.

I dont enjoy running around looking for what is essentially 'Vendor trash' or wasting my time and EDCs trying to get the proper DOFFs from the exchange when I cant get them from recruitment missions. It's not why I play the game. I find it insulting that after running the STFs since before there was a borg set to get, it'll be FORCED to deal with it in order to have access to the endgame loot. It wont matter how many runs I do, or how effective I am, I didnt file the paperwork so no one cares.

Even from a Fluff perspective this system makes no sense to me. I find it extremely strange to think that destroying entire borg and/or tholian fleets has no effect on my standing but sending someone to show off a shiney peice of metal does? Really?

I know the architecture is convienent, pre built from the DOFF and Starbase system, but if the current version of the reputation system gets implemented it'll completely kill the game for me. I'm not going to bother playing when EVERY end game system is time sensitive and I'm required to collect trivial things to progress with. I'm ok doing that with the DOFFs and the starbase, I dont need to do that for every mission.

There are better ways to implement the system then slapping a pre-existing system on top and calling it progress. I'm honestly not sure why you wouldn't reward Reputation after completing an STF or Romulan event. At least people could get credit and progress for completing the content and not be limited by what projects they're running. You could still give some XP for completing projects, but dont make it the primary (and definately not the ONLY) way of progressing.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 205
# 225
10-28-2012, 08:26 PM
I have some more feedback about the rep system and this time it is about the mission timers. I know that the 40 hours were chosen as a way to balance out the little requirements which is nice; 40 hours is fine for the Supply and Support missions since they offer 800 rep xp or 2,000 rep xp. The requisition mission's timer should be shortened since they only offer 200 rep xp and the requisition item; maybe to 20 hours that way once a day we could get a new item, but we would still have to wait 2 days to get our xp up.

Join date: January 2010
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 14,498
# 226
10-28-2012, 10:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thisisoverlord View Post
Needs more paragraphs

I agree with you though.

This is not great for casual players, someone who is playing say a few hours on the weekend and an hour or two every other day or day will find this going to take forever as they won't even be hitting the 8k dilithium a day needed to get this done in 60-90 days.

To be honest, the removal of random chance is fine, though I would have preferred to keep it and optionally allow people to trade in Edc for MKXII gear instead. But I think they want to stretch out end game content to fill the gap between now and Season 8 when a lot more new content should be available.

I also think if they were going to go with a reputation system it would have been better to grant unique Omega XP for each mission and use that as the main resource sink in the tiers rather than using Dilithium which is already stretched as it is often being used against it's original purpose of giving F2Pr's a chane to buy items from the C-Store.
Well, one good aspect is that you can play STFs for Marks one day until you have 100 or more and then not bother with doing missions for marks until you need more. Me, I often queue doff missions and then cycle characters. Someone with less characters could do dailies for Dil.
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,416
# 227
10-29-2012, 02:11 AM
Borticus, when it comes to the Borg T5 Reputation Bonus, I got an idea. Instead of making it an insane heal / revive, why not make it more Borg-Centric (since Omega Reputation involves the Borg) and have it be an affect that reduces the assimilation rate or a cure?

Right now, the assimilation rate is just too fast to react to by clicking on the UI Toolbar. So an ability to slow down the assimilation rate would be a nice reward to have. This would be a boon for meleers who tend to get assimilated without getting any warning.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,202
# 228
10-30-2012, 05:11 AM
1250 dilithium and 5 tactical or security doffs for tier I consumable security escorts? Seriously? Even if it's a stack of 10 or 20 consumables i'm not buying this. In no way i'll use dilithium and doffs in consumables, I'm sorry. And I think it won't be popular at all, since you know how popular consumables have been in the lockboxes...

Why not giving us devices like the shard or the cane? I wouldn't mind something more expensive as long as I know it's not an unending ressource sink for a little buff.


Quote:
Originally Posted by azurianstar View Post
Borticus, when it comes to the Borg T5 Reputation Bonus, I got an idea. Instead of making it an insane heal / revive, why not make it more Borg-Centric (since Omega Reputation involves the Borg) and have it be an affect that reduces the assimilation rate or a cure?
Agreed. The tooltip has been changed but there's still 10 strong heals, auto res, and tacs will still allow their team to spam it with tac initiative. What's the point of playing stfs in god mode? Completely removing assimilation with a passive power would be enough imo.

Last edited by diogene0; 10-30-2012 at 05:19 AM.
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 215
# 229
10-30-2012, 09:17 AM
So far I've been playing with the Romulan system an I'm about to hit tier 1 in it so I only have one suggestion so far. There are two mission levels in the system (i see the same in the Omega as well) one that provides 2000 reputation and one that gives 800. Both these missions take the same amount of time to complete. I would think the 800 point one might take less time considering it provides less reputation. That's my suggestion so far considering how little I've gotten into it so far.

Due to recent legitimate purchases on your account you have been placed on probation, because that makes good business sense, right? right?
Cryptic Studios Team
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,388
# 230
10-30-2012, 09:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by azurianstar View Post
Borticus, when it comes to the Borg T5 Reputation Bonus, I got an idea. Instead of making it an insane heal / revive, why not make it more Borg-Centric (since Omega Reputation involves the Borg) and have it be an affect that reduces the assimilation rate or a cure?
The primary intent of the Borg T5 ability is to rescue teammates from Assimilation. Unfortunately, due to the way Assimilate works, that teammate must be killed and then resurrected, in order to "rescue" them. So, this is what the ability does. It will also clear Assimilation debuffs in progress.

The AOE Heal was added to the ability to give it more general non-Borg-specific utility. The concept of having to advance to T5 reputation, only to receive an ability that is only useful against a single type of enemy, doesn't seem like a great payoff for so much investment, even if that enemy is prevalent at the level cap. We're open to feedback on this, though, and are still in the tuning stages for all Reputation abilities.

Others have noted in this thread, the fear of using Tactical Initiative (or other Cooldown reductions) to continually spam these T5 abilities... Well, I hope I can put some of those fears to rest when I say that we are making all T5 Reputation abilities immune to cooldown reductions. They will also share a region-specific category cooldown (currently set to 5min), although the only ones coming with S7 will not share a Region so this won't be noticed (Region = Ground or Space).
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Cryptic - Systems Design
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