Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 438
# 11
10-22-2012, 10:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
People knowing their roles - being familiar with the play of their fellows - the trust that can exist in such a scenario... I wouldn't call communication or say they are better communicators.

There is a big difference between knowing what you and your teammates are going to do and communication. Communication IMO isn't saying what the other person already knows is going to happen, but instead saying something when something out of the norm has happened or needs to happen

Yes, it cuts down on the amount of communication that is required and more can actually be said with less... they can communicate more with less, but that comes from having played as a team - the trust, being familiar, knowing their roles - etc, etc, etc.

The less a group has played together - the more chatter that will exist.

I've found the complete opposite. Most players new to a group communicate way less than they should

If Tom always flies with Jerry, and Tom knows that Jerry's going to drop X when Tom does Y - then Tom doesn't need to tell Jerry to do that - he doesn't have to coordinate that.

Now if Tom's flying with Bob - Bob doesn't know that. By the time that Tom relays to Bob what the plan is - the plan may already be useless - it might be one of those things that he might try to pass along again as they both wait for a respawn - but it still won't be as natural as when Tom's trying to do it with Jerry...

In general, PUGs are going to need to communicate a Hell of a lot more information - and - to be blunt, that tends to be a bad thing... there's just not the time for everybody to process all that information as the battlefield erupts around them.

I agree that pugs NEED to communicate more, but again I find that they communicate way less than they should. A good communicator will prioritize what needs to be said and be calling things out in that priority. Some things may be left out and if the skill of the team can't compensate the difference, then yes, they will probably lose. That is why a group of players playing together for a long period of time is so hard to crack

A better bet, might be the gamble of picking out one of the random folks in the group that appears to have a bit of a clue and try to play wingman to them. Pay attention to what they're doing - what's going on around them - and try to supplement what they're doing.

Too many folks want to be the hero though and they'll expect the others to supplement them... and, well, c'mon - lol, seriously? In PUGland you have to figure there's a good chance that they ended up there by accident and take it from there.

Letting your ego go and following direction for the better of the team is the sign of a great player, but has nothing to do with the point your trying to make with communication. It IS an extrememly important aspect for every member of a team to have, but no more or less important than also being able to communicate

Knowing what your ship can do - having a familiarity with what other ships can do - paying attention to what a person is doing - you can get by with less communication by trying to supplement somebody.

There are going to be times where you'll just want to shoot the rest of your team - no doubt - no doubt about that at all. At other times, you might just gamble on the right guy and turn things around. Hell, if you get a couple of you working in conjunction with that guy... you might even pull out the win.

I'll break out the football (NFL) analogy as an example:

The team's got a playbook, they memorize that playbook, they constantly practice what's in that playbook... when they take the field - the coaches/QB only has to communicate a few words to convey a lot of information.

PUG that up instead - try communicating all that information...all of it would have to be communicated.

Yeah, you may not be able to teach a player every aspect of the play book, but if you stick to basics and like I said before, prioritize what you NEED to communicate, you will always be better off than not saying anything at all. To use your same example, if I was telling a receiver a play he was not familiar with, I wouldn't tell him the route of every player on the field. I'd tell him to run 15 yards, and cut inside for a quick pass. Just letting him run wild all over the field waving his arms with no idea what I need from him would be a waste of his ability

It's a world of difference.

Far easier, imho, while in PUGland - just to try to supplement somebody that appears to have a clue. It's a much better plan than trying to hold a lecture on PVP 101 or expecting that anybody is going to help you out with what you're trying to do... but that's just me.
Critz had a throw together team in the queues the other night. One of us missed the pop and came up against a very good pug made group. With the one pug in an escort in place of our sci guy with cc and heals, we were very short on healing. Problem we have along with most teams I think is that when we are playing all night without much resistance, we fall out of good habits and get lazy. We weren't communicating at all, and were just kind of doing our own thing when we realized we were down 2-7. As soon as we pulled it together and started talking, we turned it around and ended with a close win 15-14. The pug wasnt on TS with us, but we still communicated what target we wanted him to concentrate on so he wasn't just running all over the field waving his hands around.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,730
# 12
10-22-2012, 10:45 AM
Yeah, teamwork is OP.

I love people who ignore priority targets and allow them to operate with impunity.

And the idiots who cop attitudes when you point out the error of their ways.


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Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,273
# 13
10-22-2012, 03:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by emoejoe View Post
but what kind of teamwork? let me bloviate for a nanosecond......

Have you ever worked with someone that needs constant direction? Even worse, they tell you everything, when you most certainly dont care. The guy who says "man i got to take a poop soon" I had one guy say "man it sure gets hot when the sun comes out"

As that isnt enough... they also seem to demand constant status updates. The guy constantly asking his boss "how am i doin boss" is doing ****tier than the guy who just does his job.

There we are: do your job. In a well defined team with much experience, there is little need for communication. Ive worked with people that know the job well so they certainly dont have to ask me anything, and they definitely dont waste energy or breath telling me what i dont need to know either.

After hooking up with an old pal in kerrat and stomping face with ultra perfect coordinated alphas.. (silent alphas with no communication required) just made me think about what teamwork can be. machine like timing and powerhouse

p.s. my one boss is a real old dude just waves his arms around randomly and points. he gets real mad at people who dont automatically know what to do without beign told. that boss loves me and i love that boss. too bad that boss sucks and always tells us to build the wall in the wrong place then we have to tear it down
Agreed on the last paragraph. When me and Zirac get a chance to work together, or me and any other competent BoP/Raptor pilot, we can easily make short work of all but the most powerful and skilled players.
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