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Career Officer
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 46
# 51
10-27-2012, 11:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxottoman View Post
He does not know or does not acknowledge the revamp for pvp was cancelled for the very reason of having a lack of a player base.
A false statement. What really happened was the developer working on overhauling the PvP system was notified that work on the project would be delayed in lieu of a heavier emphasis on the projects that were about to be released at the time. Starbases and this newest season about to be released were moved to priority for production. However, a statement was released that the PvP system was still going to be worked on.

Uninformed hearsay you say? Those who are truly uninformed need to check this link out before posting about things they have no clue.

http://sto.perfectworld.com/news/?p=634281

If you're reading this line before checking out the link above..., see link above. So now that we're clear that the PvP system is not only on the PW schedule to be worked on but is being officially recognized as a system due for an overhaul, we can get back to forward thinking posts on this thread that are aimed at suggestions for future PvP systems.

As for whether PvP is a hot item on players' minds? Well, here's another link to check out. To see the poll results in the link posted below you have to take part in the vote. But here's a sneak preview...., Improving PvP ranks #4 on the list of what our gaming community wants.

http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...d.php?t=379951

The debate on whether improving or expanding PvP venues is a waste of resources on this thread and is a waste of time to this thread's readership. It not only diverts attention from the core intent of this post, but is a false premise without basis of fact, and is clearly refuted by the official PW poll numbers that say otherwise.

It is impolite to continuously repeat the same negative point of view over and over and over and over again. If the critique given on the core concept of this thread is genuine, it need only be said once. The point will be noted and respectfully considered. Any additional repetition of same said negative point is clearly and singularly inflamatory in nature. This is a positive post with positive ideas that are meant to attract player attention to possibilities previously unconsidered. It is also a post that is meant to stimulate creativity and perhaps attract the attention of our game developers to new interests and desires pertaining to Star Trek PvP. These repetitive posts are aimed at tearing down creative ideas.

Hypothetically, even if the current PvP system were perfect..., keeping it the same year after year would still cause it to stagnate as people would slowly lose interest in doing the same thing over and over without anything new. This is why PvE is constantly being updated with new content with each new season. PvP is no less important to an MMO. The Star Trek Online community has proven this in the PW poll taken over what players want to see improved. The facts are there and there is no debate or discussion on that point. And typically, when PvE content becomes repetitious, boring, or is flawed in some way shape or form, less players enter those ques. So if the ques are dead or less players return to a specific piece of content, one of the following must be true: the content is being avoided because something in that content is bugged, flawed or faulty in some way..., the player base is frustrated with the structure or mechanics..., the players are bored.

In these cases the solution to the problem is not to cattle prod, intimidate, harangue, harass, or belittle players back into the same system that no longer satisfies their entertainment needs. A shop keeper never stayed in business by bullying their customer into buying their wares. Instead the shop keep enriches his business by providing his customer with the latest, newest, largest variety of options to satisfy his customers' needs. An MMO's player base thus needs something that is either new and expounds on the current system..., or something different. One can only do the same thing so many times..., suffer the same bugs, errors, etc. before avoiding the content altogether. And telling someone that returning to a system they feel needs a facelift to prove that there is an indicator for demand would actually be sending the wrong signal. It would indicate to the PW staff that the player base is satisfied. An amusement park that sees less and less attendants needs new rides, eh? So nothing being suggested in these repetitious negative responses makes logical sense.

The very idea that someone would want to tear down new ideas that only serve to demonstrate that our current gaming community wants what is best for the game is absurd. We the STO community want new PvP options. We want exciting content to incentivise our return to the ques. And yes, that is a sweeping generalization. Not everyone wants this..., but there are more of us that do want more PvP content, or an improved PvP system than those who don't. There's no question about it. There's no fight to pick here on the subject unless these recurrent and repetitive slams are not intended to address the thread topic, but to attack the person of those who are here to share their ideas on making the game more fun. Prove me wrong about what I'm perceiving in these negative posts by contributing a new idea that is positive. Believe me, I look forward to anything creative either of you have to say. Even if it something entirely different than what I propose.

What we need from our community is a cooperative spirit and a strong voice that conveys real ideas by which our developers can pick and choose the strongest for future seasons. Petty backbiting and squabbling only muddies the waters for them and clouds their ability to ascertain what we as a gaming community want for the game. I hope nothing more need be said about this so we can all get back to sharing our ideas, hopes and desires for the betterment of Star Trek Online PvP.

Last edited by robuille; 10-28-2012 at 08:14 AM.
Ensign
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1
# 52
10-28-2012, 06:29 AM
This is a great idea. I've always wanted to fly Sisko's Defiant in the battle to take Cardassia. The overall idea would be great for new players too because I think they'd really associate and ramp up in the game quickly in these kind of exercises.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 369
# 53
10-28-2012, 09:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxottoman View Post
Rob doesn't understand how it all works. He's new and needs special clarification on stuff.

He sincerely believes, with the current low player base for pvp there's reason for the devs to invest into it. He does not know or does not acknowledge the revamp for pvp was cancelled for the very reason of having a lack of a player base.

Asking for something like this is, is well delusional at best due to the current status of the game (at least it's pvp aspect).

Go queue up. Create a player base. Help create a premade team. I have done this with 4 fleets since FDC.

106th
ISC
Osmanli
TOS Veterans

Post videos http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nnt6aUPRUPM such as these to inspire!

Then you will be in a better position to make requests on "fixes" first and foremost (needed the most in PvP right now), before any new modules to PvP game play.

-PaxOttomana of Turkish RP Heroes
Yeah Buddy this is all true and stuff but here is where this fails, there is still no reason presented by the game for them to play, no incentive, motivation, reason AT ALL. Until Cryptic puts a good reason to PvP and advertise that reason in a Dev Blog and an in game bulletin to get it to the masses. But until that happens, there is still no reason to do this. You might get a few but not enough because like I have stated, no reason.

And there are more underground fleets that PvP than you think, My fleet PvPs, Premades and all (now known as "Starfleet Special Forces Omega Division" or just SSFOD)

This is a sort of "You build it, they will come" kind of thing. If they build up the klingons, there would be a LOT more active than it is now.
The Average PvP player

1) Teamwork and timing is #1
2) You cannot "Kirk It" in every ship
3) You are going to die, just get back up

Last edited by starcommando101; 10-28-2012 at 09:08 AM.
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 363
# 54
10-28-2012, 09:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by robuille View Post
A false statement. What really happened was the developer working on overhauling the PvP system was notified that work on the project would be delayed in lieu of a heavier emphasis on the projects that were about to be released at the time. Starbases and this newest season about to be released were moved to priority for production. However, a statement was released that the PvP system was still going to be worked on.

Uninformed hearsay you say? Those who are truly uninformed need to check this link out before posting about things they have no clue.
If your links had any kind of merited truth, then we'd see patches, fixes, and balances first and foremost. We have nothing. Sub nuke doffs still rage **** everything in pvp. Scramble sensors is still bugged for months. Power siphons roflcopter pve and pvp. AMS still bugs your evasives when fired. None of which are working as intended or are remotely balanced. And many more bugs/imbalances unaddressed. Also, no new maps.

Where is that 4th in line to be fixed item being addressed Rob? Ask the guys who were supposed to do it for this season, but ended up quitting. That's the real source. Get yourself queued up, the rest happens on its own.

I'm just gonna say, you really are too stubborn and probably just don't get it.

-PaxOttomana of Turkish RP Heroes

Last edited by paxottoman; 10-28-2012 at 10:04 AM.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 369
# 55
10-28-2012, 10:18 AM
to the above post, read my last post.

But if the Devs would add something along the lines like robuille and I have stated, (with Fleet Marks, or way more EC, or Dilithium, or a mix of the 3) PvP would be so much more popular.
The Average PvP player

1) Teamwork and timing is #1
2) You cannot "Kirk It" in every ship
3) You are going to die, just get back up
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 363
# 56
10-28-2012, 10:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by starcommando101 View Post
to the above post, read my last post.

But if the Devs would add something along the lines like robuille and I have stated, (with Fleet Marks, or way more EC, or Dilithium, or a mix of the 3) PvP would be so much more popular.
You don't know that.

In fact, like any business it's a risk assessment. In the competitive MMO market, you would rather go for something that is much more promising in terms of it being lucrative.

Realistically, the type of person that plays this game is not in it for the PvP of it. I've gone to other Fleet Team Speaks and tried to get them to pvp. 106th was one of those rare exceptions that ended up having somewhat of a pvp interest. It remains to seen if 106th is in it for the long haul. Heck even Turkish RP Heroes and Show Me Your Critz are brand new and remain to be seen if we'll be around for long period of time.

Only three fleets have been consistently around for PvP

TSI
Sad Pandas
SOB

The rest are either long gone or new. This depicts an awful reality about your proposed "potential" of interest into pvp. That it is a substantiated bad risk to take from a business perspective. If there are only three gaming communities that have been around for a year+ then that really says something in it's own.

The outright cold willingness to go into the queues as the game is, is the more tangible approach. Otherwise, don't expect changes is what I am saying. Because you cannot make those promises to Cryptic/PWE that there will be more pvp players or more interest into it based on that premise.

They're making a killing in the PvE part of things without having to even look at pvp. Let me put it this way, even if they were desperate they wouldn't. Know why? Because it's simple math, hardly any or/no players = no money.

If this game sank, then it wouldn't be because of PvP, but really it be because they ran out of stuff to sell to PvE. They wouldn't even bother with PvP if it came to that scenario, they'd close shop and move on.

-PaxOttomana of Turkish RP Heroes
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 369
# 57
10-28-2012, 11:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxottoman View Post
You don't know that.

In fact, like any business it's a risk assessment. In the competitive MMO market, you would rather go for something that is much more promising in terms of it being lucrative.

Realistically, the type of person that plays this game is not in it for the PvP of it. I've gone to other Fleet Team Speaks and tried to get them to pvp. 106th was one of those rare exceptions that ended up having somewhat of a pvp interest. It remains to seen if 106th is in it for the long haul. Heck even Turkish RP Heroes and Show Me Your Critz are brand new and remain to be seen if we'll be around for long period of time.

Only three fleets have been consistently around for PvP

TSI
Sad Pandas
SOB

The rest are either long gone or new. This depicts an awful reality about your proposed "potential" of interest into pvp. That it is a substantiated bad risk to take from a business perspective. If there are only three gaming communities that have been around for a year+ then that really says something in it's own.

The outright cold willingness to go into the queues as the game is, is the more tangible approach. Otherwise, don't expect changes is what I am saying. Because you cannot make those promises to Cryptic/PWE that there will be more pvp players or more interest into it based on that premise.

They're making a killing in the PvE part of things without having to even look at pvp. Let me put it this way, even if they were desperate they wouldn't. Know why? Because it's simple math, hardly any or/no players = no money.

If this game sank, then it wouldn't be because of PvP, but really it be because they ran out of stuff to sell to PvE. They wouldn't even bother with PvP if it came to that scenario, they'd close shop and move on.

-PaxOttomana of Turkish RP Heroes
Well sir (and from a business perspective as you have stated) You Build It, They Will Come.
Especially from point of view as a Developer. Most people in game are crying for more Content and more to do in game. So if I was a Dev with a good PvE section, and a below mediocre PvP area, how can I give more content that would not only give more content, balance PvP vs PvE ratio queues, and make the frustrated PvPers happy? Develop a PvP Overhaul.

It is not about who has been around longer, the Devs could give two you know what's about that (no offense to the ones you have stated) but they care about what is in the queues now.

As you have stated, you want us to "queue up" to better reflect who is PvPing and showing there are numbers there but this is where your logic fails sir... THERE IS NO REASON TO PVP other that the argument, "My ship is better than yours".

You are also assuming that we don't already queue up but dude... we wouldn't be here pitching ideas if we didn't. You posting here and not queuing up is kinda defeating the purpose.

Until the Devs build something or put something in place to where PvP has its benefits, PvP will never get better.

Why do Players play PvE?
They want to live out their dream as their favorite captain or get Elite Gear.
They want to work together on their starbases and build something they can be proud of.
They want to kill borg, klingons, starfleet, romulans (lol) and other things.
Most important of all, they get REWARDS

In PvP most people get steamrolled by Premades and only getting 15-20k EC a match is not worth the embarrassment, especially since the matches last just as long as an Elite PvE match which they can get Elite Gear, Dilithium, and Marks for.


This thread was made to pitch ideas to the devs, now you turned it to something else.
Stay positive for Kirk's sake


PS there are a few more fleets who pvp and has been around since the beginning sir, and I know you may not consider since the F2P launch, there are some who are dedicated pvpers there too.

In what ways can these PvP advertise themselves sir? there is no OFFICIAL tournament with worthwhile awards (the awards dont have to be money, a title would be everloving awesome)

Devs there is SO MUCH you can do with PvP in STO. The question you need to honestly ask yourself, is it all about the money?
The Average PvP player

1) Teamwork and timing is #1
2) You cannot "Kirk It" in every ship
3) You are going to die, just get back up

Last edited by starcommando101; 10-28-2012 at 11:57 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 14,605
# 58
10-28-2012, 11:57 AM
Head on over to MMORPG.com and read through 8+ years of discussion on why people PvP or do not - what they want in PvP or do not...

...then step back and look at all the FPS/TPS games with a multiplayer mode.
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 363
# 59
10-28-2012, 12:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by starcommando101 View Post
Well sir (and from a business perspective as you have stated) You Build It, They Will Come.
Especially from point of view as a Developer. Most people in game are crying for more Content and more to do in game. So if I was a Dev with a good PvE section, and a below mediocre PvP area, how can I give more content that would not only give more content, balance PvP vs PvE ratio queues, and make the frustrated PvPers happy? Develop a PvP Overhaul.

It is not about who has been around longer, the Devs could give two you know what's about that (no offense to the ones you have stated) but they care about what is in the queues now.

As you have stated, you want us to "queue up" to better reflect who is PvPing and showing there are numbers there but this is where your logic fails sir... THERE IS NO REASON TO PVP other that the argument, "My ship is better than yours".

You are also assuming that we don't already queue up but dude... we wouldn't be here pitching ideas if we didn't. You posting here and not queuing up is kinda defeating the purpose.

Until the Devs build something or put something in place to where PvP has its benefits, PvP will never get better.

Why do Players play PvE?
They want to live out their dream as their favorite captain or get Elite Gear.
They want to work together on their starbases and build something they can be proud of.
They want to kill borg, klingons, starfleet, romulans (lol) and other things.
Most important of all, they get REWARDS

In PvP most people get steamrolled by Premades and only getting 15-20k EC a match is not worth the embarrassment, especially since the matches last just as long as an Elite PvE match which they can get Elite Gear, Dilithium, and Marks for.


This thread was made to pitch ideas to the devs, now you turned it to something else.
Stay positive for Kirk's sake
PWE and Cryptic's approach to this post is not going to be different than what I am about to say and the status quo.

Queue up or go blow up some cubes.

If you're too proud to have any kind of humility by making the following statement:

"In PvP most people get steamrolled by Premades and only getting 15-20k EC a match is not worth the embarrassment"

Then I got news for you, you will get 'embarrassed' every time you lose with revamp, revitalization or whatever the heck you want from the Devs. Makes no difference, you can't stand losing? You think loosing to premades is "embarrassing?" Then you shouldn't be on here whining about pvp. Everyone looses at some point, even premades.

What you don't acknowledge is that those premades spend months on end preparing a team that compliments one another. Just because they produce the effort to commit to team building, it shouldn't be considered to be 'embarrassing' to lose to people who put a tremendous effort to build what is considered a rare type of community, a pvp fleet.

So really, we can dance around the semantics and you can shoot every idea to the Devs. But it ain't gonna happen your way because you are too proud to even lose, or can't even acknowledge that that what you want cannot be afforded right now. You shouldn't even be in this forum if you think losing is 'embarrassing' in a video game.

-PaxOttomana of Turkish RP Heroes
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 369
# 60
10-28-2012, 12:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxottoman View Post
PWE and Cryptic's approach to this post is not going to be different than what I am about to say and the status quo.

Queue up or go blow up some cubes.

If you're too proud to have any kind of humility by making the following statement:

"In PvP most people get steamrolled by Premades and only getting 15-20k EC a match is not worth the embarrassment"

Then I got news for you, you will get 'embarrassed' every time you lose with revamp, revitalization or whatever the heck you want from the Devs. Makes no difference, you can't stand losing? You think loosing to premades is "embarrassing?" Then you shouldn't be on here whining about pvp. Everyone looses at some point, even premades.

What you don't acknowledge is that those premades spend months on end preparing a team that compliments one another. Just because they produce the effort to commit to team building, it shouldn't be considered to be 'embarrassing' to lose to people who put a tremendous effort to build what is considered a rare type of community, a pvp fleet.

So really, we can dance around the semantics and you can shoot every idea to the Devs. But it ain't gonna happen your way because you are too proud to even lose, or can't even acknowledge that that what you want cannot be afforded right now. You shouldn't even be in this forum if you think losing is 'embarrassing' in a video game.

-PaxOttomana of Turkish RP Heroes

LMAOOOOO Dude you make me laugh. I never get embarrassed when I lose, hell I ask everyone who beat me how they do it, what they used and so fourth, but the fact of the matter is, you have to take in account other people. Also, I help people who ask for it. I rock a dread as a Tac officer and idc what people say. I PvP for fun, I love my ship, I love the high action, and difficulty level.

Have you been in a PvE queue with a newbie who has their first PvE Elite match and that 1 guy who insults their very life because he blew something too early??? Have you? Those people are everywhere, they are in our everyday lives and those people usually don't PvP, but if they do, they are the ones calling us hackers.

But sir I have never said I was the one that was embarrassed so please read what I have said.

No need to attack, just stay calm man... sheesh
The Average PvP player

1) Teamwork and timing is #1
2) You cannot "Kirk It" in every ship
3) You are going to die, just get back up
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