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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,484
# 21
10-20-2012, 04:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by falloutx23 View Post
PVP by nature is "adapt or die"
hopefully you didn't overread "this way or none" ... there should be several ways to adapt i guess.

Klink: House of Beautiful - J'Luc/Rom: Lag Industries - D'Waste/Fed-Sci: Lag Industries - IAM
Join Date Hoster: Dec 2011 - Join Date Symbiont: 1403 A.D. and not a dull moment
PvP improvements, since 2010 lol
/50+ Fleet-, Lobi- and Lockboxships=unreclaimable trash
Banned
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Posts: 846
# 22
10-20-2012, 04:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wast33 View Post
hopefully you didn't overread "this way or none" ... there should be several ways to adapt i guess.
There are.

I can list some for you right off the top of my head that would have worked every bit as well as what I did earlier if not better.

1 Grav Well with Doff. Grav well makes a farce out of siphons. Especially 2 ships with it. if you are in an mvam, you should -strongly- consider taking GW1, Tykens 2, TBR2 (or TBR1). Also if you are in an mvam... again you have a spare ensign... there's Torp Spread 1 again.

If you are in a sci ship, taking a Tykens, Grav Well, and PSW should definitely enter your mind. You should also probably load up on at least one Torpedo Spread.

If you are in a Cruiser that has even just the Cmdr Eng. You should probably consider taking at least Eject Plasma1 and FAW2. If you're in a cruiser that has a spare ensign, go ahead and take up FAW1 as well. Or hell, if you're in an AC load up with Torp Spread 2 and 1 and keep the TT handy.

Excelsior/Galor? FAW2, FAW3, and Plasma3 are your friends. (what I fielded today)

If you are in an Akira you better take warp plasma 1 and Advanced Peregrines set to intercept mode. Take CSV1 while you are at it as well, and load up a Torp Spread 1 in your spare ensign and load up a quantum, even if you aren't specced in torps, a TS1 tac buffed quantum will gutter shot a whole bunch of Siphon Drones in one go. And or maim /destroy Aceton Assims.

If you are in a Defiant. You damn well better take a CSV2. To use when you need to clear spam off the field between everyone elses cyling. Same applies if you are in a jemmy. And look another spare ensign ship. torp spread 1.

If you are in a Carrier, load at least 1 hangar with Peregrines, have a shockwave handy, and a Grav Well 3 or TBR 3.

Or you can field Quantum Mines, with Dispersal Pattern betas. Tric Mines, Plasma mines (my personal favorite as with spec it's a guaranteed affair)

If everyone did this, or even just the people that read this forum, siphons and carriers in general would decline in use all over again. Just like they did post introduction when the original Premades were rolling the ques around.

I'm starting to find myself agreeing with someone that left sto along time ago who was never any good to start with as a pvper, but I think just this one time he was right. FvF has killed the talent level of the average pvper.

Last edited by ghostyandfrosty; 10-20-2012 at 04:44 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 15,580
# 23
10-20-2012, 04:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by falloutx23 View Post
PVP by nature is "adapt or die"
Spare weapons, spare consoles, spare BOFFs, spare DOFFs...different alcohol choices.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,484
# 24
10-20-2012, 04:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostyandfrosty View Post
There are.

I can list some for you right off the top of my head that would have worked every bit as well as what I did earlier if not better.

1 Grav Well with Doff. Grav well makes a farce out of siphons. Especially 2 ships with it. if you are in an mvam, you should -strongly- consider taking GW1, Tykens 2, TBR2 (or TBR1). Also if you are in an mvam... again you have a spare ensign... there's Torp Spread 1 again.

If you are in a sci ship, taking a Tykens, Grav Well, and PSW should definitely enter your mind. You should also probably load up on at least one Torpedo Spread.

If you are in a Cruiser that has even just the Cmdr Eng. You should probably consider taking at least Eject Plasma1 and FAW2. If you're in a cruiser that has a spare ensign, go ahead and take up FAW1 as well. Or hell, if you're in an AC load up with Torp Spread 2 and 1 and keep the TT handy.

Excelsior/Galor? FAW2, FAW3, and Plasma3 are your friends. (what I fielded today)

If you are in an Akira you better take warp plasma 1 and Advanced Peregrines set to intercept mode. Take CSV1 while you are at it as well, and load up a Torp Spread 1 in your spare ensign and load up a quantum, even if you aren't specced in torps, a TS1 tac buffed quantum will gutter shot a whole bunch of Siphon Drones in one go. And or maim /destroy Aceton Assims.

If you are in a Defiant. You damn well better take a CSV2. To use when you need to clear spam off the field between everyone elses cyling. Same applies if you are in a jemmy. And look another spare ensign ship. torp spread 1.

If you are in a Carrier, load at least 1 hangar with Peregrines, have a shockwave handy, and a Grav Well 3 or TBR 3.

Or you can field Quantum Mines, with Dispersal Pattern betas. Tric Mines, Plasma mines (my personal favorite as with spec it's a guaranteed affair)

If everyone did this, or even just the people that read this forum, siphons and carriers in general would decline in use all over again. Just like they did post introduction when the original Premades were rolling the ques around.

I'm starting to find myself agreeing with someone that left sto along time ago who was never any good to start with as a pvper, but I think just this one time he was right. FvF has killed the talent level of the average pvper.
thanks for your replies! i hope this will help many, though for me the only really new was that solution mentioned with consoles and respec.
i don't like it, nor i ever got the feeling, torps are needed against klnks or in a build anyway (just if you like to have them in ).

p.s.: i don't know/care if i'm untalented, stupid, or whatever (in your eyes). i do got aoe's on most of my ship-builds. just had a game in my defiant, scatter volley included, where i used that ability, buffed and in connection with my ap dhc's (most bop's just plop when i hit them, buffed and with that build). i hardly killed the most of the advanced power siphons, but no way to get them all (you know, mostly other klinks are also around).
but may i also always build my ships wrong. for me the op is just obvious on those abilites ^^.

i don't want to struggle, so i please you to go on with your informative posting style, by letting out the personal sounding. maybe people are too stupid for pvp, maybe i am, but that's not the topic of this thread ...

Klink: House of Beautiful - J'Luc/Rom: Lag Industries - D'Waste/Fed-Sci: Lag Industries - IAM
Join Date Hoster: Dec 2011 - Join Date Symbiont: 1403 A.D. and not a dull moment
PvP improvements, since 2010 lol
/50+ Fleet-, Lobi- and Lockboxships=unreclaimable trash

Last edited by wast33; 10-20-2012 at 05:32 PM.
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# 25
10-20-2012, 05:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wast33 View Post
thanks for your replies! i hope this will help many, though for me the only really new was that solution mentioned with consoles and respec.
i don't like it, nor i ever got the feeling, torps are needed against klnks or in a build anyway (just if you like to have them in ).
i guess you're only replying on siphons with your post? so the question now should be: are there boff-counters for drains (personal ones were mentioned/linked somewhere above)?

p.s.: i don't know if i'm just untalented, or always build my ships wrong, but for me, the op is obvious on those abilites.
Surely you have particle generators ranked. It's such an easy skill to get points for. especially with 0 torp spec. 2 boff skill changes, and peregrines would make a world of difference there. (You don't even need the Torpedo point defense console...which also helps Tremendously every couple mins) even just having Plasma will help you.

Siphons are what put teams well past the edge of recovery. Otherwise, you can still manage to maintain high enough power levels to get the job done.

Also, you need to rank Power Insulators. Seriously, aceton, and leech especially can't even phase you if you have 6 in PI.

There are all sorts of soft counters like EPTX, batteries, EPS power transfer, the warp core engineer (power bonus doff). Evasive out of the Rifts before your engines go down etc.

You want to improve so I have no issue with you by the way. It's the other clowns that would try to treat the game like it were FvF. You can't. As a defiant other than a spread and CSV (maybe a TBR1 in the sci slot too) there's not much else you can do but hope your team mates are not completely retarded. (most feds are.. even in fvf.. which is alot Easier to master)

Last edited by ghostyandfrosty; 10-20-2012 at 05:41 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,484
# 26
10-20-2012, 05:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostyandfrosty View Post
Surely you have particle generators ranked. It's such an easy skill to get points for. especially with 0 torp spec. 2 boff skill changes, and peregrines would make a world of difference there. (You don't even need the Torpedo point defense console...which also helps Tremendously every couple mins) even just having Plasma will help you.

Siphons are what put teams well past the edge of recovery. Otherwise, you can still manage to maintain high enough power levels to get the job done.

Also, you need to rank Power Insulators. Seriously, aceton, and leech especially can't even phase you if you have 6 in PI.

There are all sorts of soft counters like EPTX, batteries, EPS power transfer, the warp core engineer (power bonus doff). Evasive out of the Rifts before your engines go down etc.
thanks a lot for all the hints . for me all possible answers seem to be given, i hope anyone now can take something out off this thread.
i guess i won't try the respec, my toon is specced as tac (power levels, damage, engine, shields and so), but i also may will give it a try . sci-slots on my defiant are reserved for polarize hull and shield... dunno the name by now .
i do also totally agree: fvk is not fvf, and as a fed i always liked the challenge kdf offered to me, but... you know (thread-title) .

Klink: House of Beautiful - J'Luc/Rom: Lag Industries - D'Waste/Fed-Sci: Lag Industries - IAM
Join Date Hoster: Dec 2011 - Join Date Symbiont: 1403 A.D. and not a dull moment
PvP improvements, since 2010 lol
/50+ Fleet-, Lobi- and Lockboxships=unreclaimable trash

Last edited by wast33; 10-20-2012 at 05:51 PM.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 434
# 27
10-20-2012, 05:42 PM
EPS Transfer isn't simply drained within seconds of popping it? Maybe it's a combination of all other stuff being stacked but EPtX, EPS Tranfer, and stuff like that just adds a couple of seconds before the power is gone again. They need to cap how much can be drained and work on some stacking resistance or diminishing returns.

Leech also increases the gap between your power levels and the power level of your attackers. So even if your drain isn't as insane as it was, the person Leeching has significantly more power before using any of the other drains available.
__________________________________________
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It's terrible but easy, and these Borg are way cooler than the mess STO and Voyager left us.
May not actually be "way" cooler or even "slightly" cooler.
Banned
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 846
# 28
10-20-2012, 05:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wast33 View Post
thanks a lot for all the hints . for me all possible answers seems to be given, i hope anyone now can take something out off this thread.
i guess i won't try the respec, my toon is specced as tac (power levels, damage, engine, shields and so), but i also may will give it a try .
Hey if you need anything at all spec wise, or pointers feel free to mail me either on this forum or in game.

in game you can add me as a friend or send me mails my handle there is @Mavairo .
Banned
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Posts: 846
# 29
10-20-2012, 05:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevehale View Post
EPS Transfer isn't simply drained within seconds of popping it? Maybe it's a combination of all other stuff being stacked but EPtX, EPS Tranfer, and stuff like that just adds a couple of seconds before the power is gone again. They need to cap how much can be drained and work on some stacking resistance or diminishing returns.

Leech also increases the gap between your power levels and the power level of your attackers. So even if your drain isn't as insane as it was, the person Leeching has significantly more power before using any of the other drains available.
Leech only drains 5 power hale if you have PI ranked. the enemy gets a +16 bonus true.

But you have a +10 from Maco (or should. Why aren't you fielding Maco shield? Seriously! ) so there's only a +10 gap. Assim drains another like 5 tops. Assims best perk actually comes when something shoots it, it give syou effectively 2 free turrets in dps if people keeps shooting them against all targets within 5km of the assim. A warpcore engineer easily can cover that gap. (and the kdf has other things he should be putting in his doff slots anyway)

Again, the "Problem" is Siphon Drones. and even that really is not nearly as much of an issue as you think it might be in 5v5. Earlier today I and pretty much one other person shut down an entire Carrier Drain Team. with 2 ships. The score was 8 to 1 (which is where I began filming) at one point and ended 15 to 8. If the feds aren't ******* they won't lose. Or shouldn't lose.

I'm sure you'll want visual confirmation of what I'm saying and You'll have it. The video is 30 percent uploaded already.

Even moderate AOE use and decent coordination will suppress the spam pretty quickly. and none of us had plasma, tric, or quantum mines which make the job even easier.

God forbid had we come into that arena with a Balance Team of 2 tac 2 sci and an eng. Because had the scis been loaded down in AOE that match would have been laughably easy.

Last edited by ghostyandfrosty; 10-20-2012 at 05:50 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,484
# 30
10-20-2012, 06:09 PM
... damn it... all this made me hungry now . i'll just go, see if i still can let some bop's plop .

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostyandfrosty View Post
Hey if you need anything at all spec wise, or pointers feel free to mail me either on this forum or in game.

in game you can add me as a friend or send me mails my handle there is @Mavairo .
thanks for! i will contact you when/if i can't stand the truth any longer . may one time we can do a match together, so you'll see if i'm a proper pvp'er already or not. referring to publics, just look out for any waste .

Klink: House of Beautiful - J'Luc/Rom: Lag Industries - D'Waste/Fed-Sci: Lag Industries - IAM
Join Date Hoster: Dec 2011 - Join Date Symbiont: 1403 A.D. and not a dull moment
PvP improvements, since 2010 lol
/50+ Fleet-, Lobi- and Lockboxships=unreclaimable trash
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