Lieutenant
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 93
# 201
10-23-2012, 03:37 PM
What if the other mine types got a little bit of love along with a slight nerf to trics? +/- 10%?
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 797
# 202
10-23-2012, 05:00 PM
so the pvp build proved to be better then the pve build?
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,015
# 203
10-23-2012, 08:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kronosath View Post
I think that we all should find and read what the term "mine" means.

Mines were designed for two main uses: to create defensive tactical barriers, channeling attacking forces into predetermined fire zones or slowing an invasion force's progress to allow reinforcements to arrive; and to act as passive area-denial weapons.

You enter you die, destroyed, etc.

Mines in real life are devastating weapons, land or naval.

I think that should be their purpose in game as well. In fact I believe that only trics do what they are supposed to do so far. You enter a mine field you die. Otherwise they are not mines and should be called something else.

In the game nobody takes seriously the mines. Only when they did what they should do.

Most of the mines do not cripple just do some damage, except from trics that either destroy or leave the target with a large hull damage. I might agree about the high crit that they have, but come on tell honestly, if you see a player spawning photon, quantum, etc, what do you say, that it is pointless and advise him to change that slot into something more effective.

Anything else and they are not called mines. And to all guides for builds especially for crowd control, everybody mentions the term Denial Zone.

So if I want to avoid an escort to tail me what do I do? I have to deny it that zone. And you know that they are stuck in your tail. So you want to avoid that stay at a distance and you can see the spawning happening, like the warp plasma. Plasma renders you immobile and tell me how many of you sometimes died, not always, when everybody concentrated the fire on you because you were a sitting duck and your counters where not available.

Another example: Capture and hold scenario. I try to capture a point. I have to deny the others the point to enter. What more effective than mines.

I understand the frustration of some players, but they are mines, their purpose is to destroy you if you hit them. They are not visible in real life, why be visible to the game. Then the aspect of friendly damage. Ok make them more visible also to friendlies in order to avoid them and if someone goes near them why not be destroyed.
You sound like I did yesterday.

How about somebody flies up to you, drops a dispersal pattern, then hits Temporal Backstep. You are frozen. Meanwhile the mines arm. GG.

Doesn't sound like zone denial to me.

The problem isn't necessarily the trics, it's the shoddy implementation of things that were pretty bad ideas to begin with which combine with trics to remove all the mines' inherent weaknesses.
Banned
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 846
# 204
10-23-2012, 09:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pottsey5g View Post
I agree about Escorts but not that the point is dumb. A PvP ACC build will deal out less damage then a PvE Crit build. That crit build will fail at PvP due to no ACC and shots missing but for PvE it will deal more DPS then the PvP build. Hence why I said a good PvE build should match or beat a good PvP build for DPS at PvE. PvE is so simple you do not need to worry about defense or missing the target so you can take all the high DPS mods that are not always a good idea for PvP. I agree my setup is not top end DPS or near that but I also think you can build higher DPS setups for PvE then you can get away with for PvP.


?Again, what do you think would happen if you had no high resists??
I would die of course. What would happen if my target did not have high resistance and defense like you did? My dps would triple which would be a good DPS number for a heal boat. You had 50% or more resistance against all my damage for the entire battle on top of high defense causing me to miss well over 20% of the time if not higher. In PvE I do not need to worry about 50% resistance or defense and missing shots. I just heal and hit the hulls for 33k per shot or more with someone lowers kinetic resistance. I can easily get 40k+ per shot and 100k+crit with an Attack pattern to lower Kinetic resistance.

The main reason I use torps is I cannot get energy to work . I just do not see how any cruiser build could beat those Escorts of yours and I am happy to be proven wrong.
Only slightly less, furthermore there are ways to make CrtH weapons sing in pvp. They are called, snares, holds and stuns. Not only that, but against Big Fat Juicy Slow moving Targets (ike your cruiser) due to Acc overflow, CrtD becomes a much more desirable secondary property than does CrtH, especially on a weapon that is going to roll god only knows how many attack rolls over the course of a few seconds.

There is no "getting away with". Either your ship can Crank or it can't. part of Cranking is hitting the target in the first place.

I had a meager 4 percent Kinetic Resistance on my ship. oh and also, Tranny torps? they're bugged I could take my shields off and you'd do the same damage to my nekked hull as you would my shielded one, over all. I spent a full afternoon with 2 friends testing that. So your ship's dps? is already at Peak. Mine? Had to overcome your Full SDR, Hull Damage Resistance, and hull heals. My damage output would soar much much higher than yours.

Even if your damage Doubled, in pve to pvp. Your damage output is still less than 1/2 of mine. I know for a fact that my damage increases Tremendously against unhardened targets (things like npcs, stupid cruisers that don't pre buff any defenses). You could easily triple, or even quadruple my over all DPS for a given encounter, against defenseless targets.

I do more damage than you, and not even by a little margin. But by a Huge one. Over Four Times as much. That gulf is far too wide. in Raw Damage (that's damage that is Unadjusted) I out did you by an even larger gap than the Adjusted numbers that I mentioned earlier.

Fun trivia: of the 360+ thousand I did, you soaked 360,000 worth of the 81,000 you threw I only had to soak 54,000 of it.

I built my ship to be able to both Deal and soak fire, on the level I can generally throw it down by the way when I can.

By the way if any one that thinks a pvper can't possibly dish out 80,000 in 30 seconds. Sustained. the lil match me and this guy did? lasted 1 minute 49 seconds in that time my Raw Damage was 361,262. For the Math Impaired, that means by 30 seconds I had dealt 99429.9085256... damage. Nuff Said. Oh and I could have done better than that too. I used Tykens instead of TBR or GW, both of which do far and away more damage. So you could add another 10k to that number easy, to say nothing of any doff procs that might have happened.

Last edited by ghostyandfrosty; 10-23-2012 at 09:11 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 797
# 205
10-23-2012, 10:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by redricky View Post
You sound like I did yesterday.

How about somebody flies up to you, drops a dispersal pattern, then hits Temporal Backstep. You are frozen. Meanwhile the mines arm. GG.

Doesn't sound like zone denial to me.

The problem isn't necessarily the trics, it's the shoddy implementation of things that were pretty bad ideas to begin with which combine with trics to remove all the mines' inherent weaknesses.
So back step is the problem, like the devs were warned enforce it came out, but they said internal qa passed it.

Gotta love them cryptic guys.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 735
# 206
10-23-2012, 11:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by redricky View Post
How about somebody flies up to you, drops a dispersal pattern, then hits Temporal Backstep. You are frozen. Meanwhile the mines arm. GG.
Problem is backstep, not the mines.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,996
# 207
10-23-2012, 11:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dassemsto View Post
Problem is backstep, not the mines.
Hm. Is there really a problem, other than the promised counter for Temporal Backstep not yet being in the game?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Promote what you love, instead of bashing what you hate.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 797
# 208
10-24-2012, 12:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sophlogimo View Post
Hm. Is there really a problem, other than the promised counter for Temporal Backstep not yet being in the game?
Until its put in, then yes. It is backstep that's the problem.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 733
# 209
10-24-2012, 01:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostyandfrosty View Post
Only slightly less, furthermore there are ways to make CrtH weapons sing in pvp. They are called, snares, holds and stuns. Not only that, but against Big Fat Juicy Slow moving Targets (ike your cruiser) due to Acc overflow, CrtD becomes a much more desirable secondary property than does CrtH, especially on a weapon that is going to roll god only knows how many attack rolls over the course of a few seconds.

There is no "getting away with". Either your ship can Crank or it can't. part of Cranking is hitting the target in the first place.

I had a meager 4 percent Kinetic Resistance on my ship. oh and also, Tranny torps? they're bugged I could take my shields off and you'd do the same damage to my nekked hull as you would my shielded one, over all. I spent a full afternoon with 2 friends testing that. So your ship's dps? is already at Peak. Mine? Had to overcome your Full SDR, Hull Damage Resistance, and hull heals. My damage output would soar much much higher than yours.

Even if your damage Doubled, in pve to pvp. Your damage output is still less than 1/2 of mine. I know for a fact that my damage increases Tremendously against unhardened targets (things like npcs, stupid cruisers that don't pre buff any defenses). You could easily triple, or even quadruple my over all DPS for a given encounter, against defenseless targets.

I do more damage than you, and not even by a little margin. But by a Huge one. Over Four Times as much. That gulf is far too wide. in Raw Damage (that's damage that is Unadjusted) I out did you by an even larger gap than the Adjusted numbers that I mentioned earlier.

Fun trivia: of the 360+ thousand I did, you soaked 360,000 worth of the 81,000 you threw I only had to soak 54,000 of it.

I built my ship to be able to both Deal and soak fire, on the level I can generally throw it down by the way when I can.

By the way if any one that thinks a pvper can't possibly dish out 80,000 in 30 seconds. Sustained. the lil match me and this guy did? lasted 1 minute 49 seconds in that time my Raw Damage was 361,262. For the Math Impaired, that means by 30 seconds I had dealt 99429.9085256... damage. Nuff Said. Oh and I could have done better than that too. I used Tykens instead of TBR or GW, both of which do far and away more damage. So you could add another 10k to that number easy, to say nothing of any doff procs that might have happened.
There is no point arguing about your setup doing more than me as I do not disagree with that. You are an Escort against a healing Cruiser. Compare me to other cruisers or healing cruisers and I can kill targets those cruisers fail to. The point off my setup is to have 25power in weapons, loads in Aux heal people while still dealing decent damage to all the hull targets and groups in STF's. Surly 1500 to 2000dps against hull is not bad for a healer?

I am a bit surprised about your testing as I did extensive testing and found I did 2.2k per shot with torpedoes on shields and 5k against hull. Cluster is 15k ish on shields and 32k ish on hull. Due to half the weapons having AoE I tend to come decent in the DPS chart in group PvP and PvE for a crusier. Doing 32k per weapon shot to a group is always nice.

Once thing I am confused about is DPS as you keep saying it sucks which it does 1v1 but in group PvP and PvE it keeps coming out much better then you say for a cruiser.

Last edited by pottsey5g; 10-24-2012 at 01:15 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 797
# 210
10-24-2012, 01:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pottsey5g View Post
There is no point arguing about your setup doing more than me as I do not disagree with that. You are an Escort against a healing Cruiser. Compare me to other cruisers or healing cruisers and I can kill targets those cruisers fail to. The point off my setup is to have 25power in weapons, loads in Aux heal people while still dealing decent damage to all the hull targets and groups in STF's. Surly 1500 to 2000dps against hull is not bad for a healer?

I am a bit surprised about your testing as I did extensive testing and found I did 2.2k per shot with torpedoes on shields and 5k against hull. Cluster is 15k ish on shields and 32k ish on hull. Due to half the weapons having AoE I tend to come high up the DPS chart in group PvP and PvE. Doing 32k per weapon shot to a group is always nice.

Once thing I am confused about is DPS as you keep saying it sucks which it does 1v1 but in group PvP and PvE it keeps coming out very high for a cruiser often high up to chart.
Era could out damage and out heal you. And he's a lowly pvp healer
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