Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 135
# 31
10-30-2012, 08:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shimmerless View Post
What is/was your BOff build, if you don't mind me asking?
Guess it doesn't matter at all now.

Tac - FaW1, HY2 (was moving this to Om1), BO3 (I detest having a FoTM like TT1 and fully expect the Cryptic NERF bat to be swung at that 1, fast)
Com Eng - ET1, RSP1, EjectWP1, APSI3
Lt Eng - EptS1 and 2
En Eng - ET1
Sci - ST1, TSS2

Doffs - 2 Purple SDO, 3 Purple DCE

Stats;

Defence - 60
Starship Shield Systems - 122 (unbuffed)
" " Emitters - 114
Power Transfer Rate - 274%
Hull - 50,110
Shields - 11,794
Resists - Kin 30
P,D,P,T Resists - 45.3 (unbuffed)
P/AP - 36.2
Attack - 3.4 - 59.1

All weapons Mk XII ACCX3 Purples ( torps Mk 11 ACCX3 )

I macroed EpTS 1,2 (on all the time) along with TSS2, and APSI3, flying a Tac with ALL the built in resists and 2% DPS adds (1st toon in pre-launch)

There is just no way to stand up against the 5 tac consoles, 4 Mk12 DHCs, with all the tac alpha buffs. It can stand a few passes but it's just a process of "wear you down" while putting me in defensive/healing mode. And then, the bug is just looking for that large crit to change the tide and it will eventualy get it. The fact that the bug can get more hull resists (as they do not need the PT console) doesn't seem to help at all for any assemblance of balance. I tested against the bug simply because it's the most OP ship in the game and instead of it being outclassed with the fleet ships, they added to it to still make it the best and the brightest. If Cryptic Development would of actualy added to the excel, (I paid for that also just the same as bug owners), I might not be downloading RIFT right now. (at least it will have housing in it next month and it's NOT F2P-P2W.) If anything STO has taught me, I have a very large dislike for DPS in a store while devs NERF healing/tanking so that paid for DPS looks even more attactive. So, moth balls for my toons.

Crusiers, and the excel, have just been outclassed and NERFed into oblivian with the possible exception of the P2L Oddy and then only as a heal-boat with no DPS to speak of and playing nothing more than a support prof for the 1 who does throw the P2W DPS.

Any1 who wants the excel, my best advise is to pass and save the money, Get ahold of a bug or at the least the fleet Patrol Escort with a Mk12 purple turn console to even the score with the bug, somewhat. Both of them are viable in this version of P2W STO, crusiers, and sad to say the excel, are not.

Last edited by esquire1980; 10-30-2012 at 08:52 PM.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 318
# 32
10-30-2012, 11:01 PM
Hmm I've never gone up against a bug ship in 1 on 1 combat but I have reliably pasted the escort carrier, Patrol escort, and Garumba. so not that far out of the league. Garumba did most spike damage with an all out tactical buf and ato3 alpha. Required use of a TT + TSS to overcome. TT is fa fad skill but its a very powerful fad skill to not use it is to nurf yourself intentionally dont be surprised to loose if you do that.

I fly a canon excelsior on holodeck basicly almost duplicate build to the canon odyssey I posted. Which is a Dontdrunkimshoot build modification with a few lockbox consoles for a more BOP piloting playstyle.

http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...1&postcount=10
http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skil...d=BOPOdyssey_0

That build is basically it. Drop the APO1 for a crf and the engi skills get an added Aux to Dampeners for a pinch maneuverability boost and they basically line up after that.

killing escorts is simple after that you weather the alpha let their APO# wear off then put them in warp plasma, tac skills, weapon bat, and let rip with your canons. Escorts fold under in about 11 seconds 30 if they have rsp.

Last edited by hroothvitnir; 10-30-2012 at 11:04 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,912
# 33
10-31-2012, 07:44 AM
I have taken an engineer excelsior up against a bug ship, I managed to put a small dent in it's hull while it was getting it's defences sorted I was then forced to break off in very short order and fire off my MW, TSS, RSF and when he chased me RSP... when that wore off I was dead in a matter of seconds.

My Excelsior build has 99% uptime on EPtS and EPtW, runs aux2SIF and TT every 15 seconds.

The Bug is the only player ship I can't come to a stalemate with. Even the Chimera is more in tune with the game balance than the bug... the funny thing is that CBS passed that design... it should be a glorified BoP.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 135
# 34
10-31-2012, 08:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hroothvitnir View Post
Hmm I've never gone up against a bug ship in 1 on 1 combat but I have reliably pasted the escort carrier, Patrol escort, and Garumba. so not that far out of the league. Garumba did most spike damage with an all out tactical buf and ato3 alpha. Required use of a TT + TSS to overcome. TT is fa fad skill but its a very powerful fad skill to not use it is to nurf yourself intentionally dont be surprised to loose if you do that.

I fly a canon excelsior on holodeck basicly almost duplicate build to the canon odyssey I posted. Which is a Dontdrunkimshoot build modification with a few lockbox consoles for a more BOP piloting playstyle.

http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...1&postcount=10
http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skil...d=BOPOdyssey_0

That build is basically it. Drop the APO1 for a crf and the engi skills get an added Aux to Dampeners for a pinch maneuverability boost and they basically line up after that.

killing escorts is simple after that you weather the alpha let their APO# wear off then put them in warp plasma, tac skills, weapon bat, and let rip with your canons. Escorts fold under in about 11 seconds 30 if they have rsp.
Try the bug sometime, with a good player at the helm, and you'll get the feeling. There are a couple of good escort pilots in BOA, Cypher probably being the best with quite a few close 2nds. But even the best bug pilots are heading for other games now as there is simply no challenge what-so-ever and for balance they have to disqualify themselves out of player intitated fleet PVP just to get others to participate.

If I'm going to run a cannon build, I'm going to put it in an escort. They were designed for it, they can get 2 copys of Om, and use it to it's fullest ability. Crusiers, of any sort, can not. They just do not have the Boff tac slots (for Om) nor the turn rate to use them effectivly. Beams, before the ACC NERF, used to be the min/max standard for crusiers but now with nothing but misses (even with ACCX3 Mk 12purples) beams are such low damage in the comparison that they are almost worthless.

TT is nothing more than a self DPS gimp for a cruiser. All cruisers, except the excel, only have 2 tac slots and using 1 of them for TT is a massive self-NERF to damage. Again tho, escorts can and do run 2 copys of TT very easily and effective. They have the tac boff slots to do this along with 2 copys of Om. All my escorts run 2 copys of TT, macro-ed with my G-board. The crusier, at best can run 1. Now, on a heal-boat they are not worried about damage of any sort and are nothing more than a support prof so that can get away with it. Besides that, TT has got it's neck streched out on the choping block so much it isn't even funny. They've talked about it before and now with the notification that more "balance issues" will be taken up after season 7, I'm sure it will end up being about as effective, post NERF, as FaW is with it's post NERF abilities. Ev1 who relys upon TT, will have their legs yanked right out from under them, just like FaW. But, not to worry, buy some more keys for even more DPS and have an entire game of 1-shot kills with the only skill of, "Who can get to the button, 1st"?

A good escort pilot will only fall for the the plasma snare once, After that, he's not exactly right on your tail to get caught. With staying back just a distance of about 3, the plasma snare is ineffective and the bug has the turn rate to never get caught. I have had more success with the tractor mines than plasma anyday. However, all these tac slots and Oms come into play there and the good escort will counter even that (all tho it's a tad bit harder but they have more than the bear minimum tools to pull it off).

This is the development design of STO now. And I'm sure that the bug will ultimatly be outclassed in the near future as well. You bought 200 keys to get the bug, but there will be another ship that's better, has more DPS, more Boff slots, more console slots, more P2W consoles that will throw your builds right out the window as well, for nothing more than the never ending battle of heading you to their store and getting another 200 keys. And after that, another one is right down the line. With the P2W development design, they simply have to. It doesn't matter of you pay 15 a month for a sub, gave them $300.00 for a lifetime, the design is you'll end up in their store as well, if you want to compete. The end result is PVP ends up pretty much dead, as it is right now.

I'm just a bit sick of all of it and it's probably more than time to head on for "greener" pastures.

Last edited by esquire1980; 10-31-2012 at 08:51 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 786
# 35
10-31-2012, 01:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shockwave85 View Post
To understand Fed ship design, you have to go all the way back to Matt Jeffries in 1964 sketching out what a space ship would look like. Flying saucers were basically synonymous with space ships at the time, so they started with that. They also decided it seemed logical that these powerful faster-than-light engines would be in some way radioactive (nuclear fears also big in the 60's!), so they would have to be out away from the crew. So, Jeffries added three cylindrical projections attached by pylons to the saucer. Eventually, the upper two were moved from attaching to the saucer, to being attached to the lower cylinder, and there you have the basic layout of the Enterprise.

While canon would eventually seem to establish that the nacelles weren't harmful to the crew, as multiple times we'd see people working inside them, the design is what it is. All future designs, especially any slated to be named Enterprise have to pay homage. Alternate explanations are given in sources like the TNG tech manual that have the nacelles positioned for optimal warp field efficiency relative to the overall structure of the ship. This is also supported by the variable wings on the Intrepid-class, which while not obvious in the actual show, were supposed to adjust their position depending on speed and maneuvering requirements.

The Defiant is unique among capital ships, but not among small craft. While larger ships tend to have outboard nacelles, smaller craft like shuttles have them pulled in close or entirely internal. The Defiant's uniquely compact structure may be what allows its nacelles to pull in so close. This also seems to be true of low performance ships like freighters and transports, which almost never have visible nacelles (Tuffli).

So, yes, while having the nacelles away from the rest of the ship does make them somewhat vulnerable, it may be necessary to achieve the high performance design goals of a starship (at least with Fed technology, other species may vary). Also, generally you are protected by your shields. With Trek-era weaponry, when your shields go down, you're SOL anyway.

Also, Excelsior, possibly my favorite ship design. There are very few facts when it comes to aesthetics, it's pretty much 100% opinion.
Excellent analysis and explanation!

There is standard design that makes the Federation ship look like a Federation ship, mainly because of the design history, as explained above, but once you start veering off from that it starts to look less like a Fed ship.

If all ships looked like a Defiant, just different sizes, it just would not look right. The Defiant is a small, tight little ship and looks great, but you still need the saucer, hull and nacelle design to look like the standard Fed ship.

The modern ship designers recognize some of the shortcomings of the earlier designs, like the skinny neck attaching the saucer to the hull, and have resulted in even sleeker looking designs, but still hold to the standard design of saucer, hull and nacelle components.

Personally, I am researching what my end-game cruiser will be. I currently run my Engy with a AE (Prometheus) that I thoroughly enjoy but I need a better cruiser than my Star Cruiser - now that I know better, I want a cruiser with more Tac consoles. Sometimes I just want to tank and would like a good cruiser that I can do STFs with. I love the practical look of the Excelsior-Retrofit with the Adv Transwarp but I see better use of the Regent with the 180 degree torps and universal BOff slot... and more modern looks. I'm torn between them.

Thanks.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 590
# 36
10-31-2012, 01:51 PM
Commenting on the Defiant: I forget where it was said, but the Defiant's hull shape and integrated nacelles were supposed to have caused instabilities in the warp field and put a fairly large amount of strain on the ship's structure when flying at higher warp speeds which was one of the reasons that it was assigned directly to a starbase like DS9 and spent a significant amount of its time docked instead of being constantly out and about in the Gamma quadrant like a Galaxy or Excelsior would have.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5,335
# 37
10-31-2012, 10:19 PM
Well, now we know the stats of the Vesta, and as I thought, it has better Quantum Slipstream. Makes sense of course, considering where it comes from.

But, just feels like the idea of Transwarp seems to be falling to the wayside, which is really unfortunate, and again, I hope they expand the Transwarp capabilities of the Excelsior in season 7.

Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,449
# 38
11-01-2012, 09:46 AM
Go get the Lakota.
Age StarTrek-Gamers Administrator
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer
Star Trek Gamers
Ensign
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 15
# 39
11-02-2012, 05:15 PM
Technology gets twice as fast and costs half the price at an ever increasing rate.

Which for me says everything you need to know about the excelsior class and why it remains so popular.

Starfleet in game is supposed to be stretched to its absalute limit. Borg, fighting the klingons (although in game that war is all but over) mirror universe, undine, romulans the new dominions, the breen, the list goes on.

Hell you become a captain when your still an ensign. Starfleet is waffer fine as it stands

production wise after such a long time they will have got creating new excelsior down to a pittence yet it is still a ship that can hold its own against most things out there.

It stands to reason that these things would get chucked out as fast as Starfleet could manage

Last edited by mattyp448; 11-02-2012 at 10:18 PM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5,335
# 40
11-02-2012, 11:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattyp448 View Post
Technology gets twice as fast and costs half the price at an ever increasing rate.

Which for me says everything you need to know about the excelsior class and why it remains so popular.

Starfleet in game is supposed to be stretched to its absalute limit. Borg, fighting the klingons (although in game that war is all but over) mirror universe, undine, romulans the new dominions, the breen, the list goes on.

Hell you become a captain when your still an ensign. Starfleet is waffer fine as it stands

production wise after such a long time they will have got creating new excelsior down to a pittence yet it is still a ship that can hold its own against most things out there.

It stands to reason that these things would get chucked out as fast as Starfleet could manage
You have a lot of good points there. Making the Excelsior for so many decades, even if it isn't their 'top of the line' ship like the Odyssey is still quite impressive that it can hold up as well as it does.

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