Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 393
# 581
10-24-2012, 08:37 PM
you say it will take X amount of time for Y if you play Z times a week. OK I understand that but what if your a grinder that runs 5x faster. Will you get Y faster
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,808
# 582
10-24-2012, 08:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dastahl View Post
Ok, just checked with the designers and here is what they've done for Season 7

- Normal STFs now reward 240 Dilithium + Omega Marks
- Elite STFs now reward 480 Dilithium + Omega Marks + Borg Commodity for MKXII Sets
- Fleet Actions now reward 960 Dilithium (1st place Gold gets 2x this = 1920 Dilithium)

In Season 7, Fleet Actions will now become the best source of Dilithium between the two types of Events.

In addition Fleet Actions will now have better rewards in general
Gold = Purple + 1920 Dilithium
Silver = Purple + 960 Dilithium
Bronze = Blue + 960 Dilithium
All others = Green + 960 Dilithium

In addition, at max level in the Omega Fleet a repetable project unlocks that converts Omega Marks to Dilithium at a rate of 50 marks to 500 dilithium or thereabouts.

The new Red Alert daily in the New Romulus Sector also rewards 480 Dilithium in addition to Rom marks.

All of this could change before Season 7 hits, but that is what the current plan is.
here's the thing about STO's Dilithium implementation that's bothered since you introduced it in Season 5:

- You keep calling it a 'time currency' because you earn it by playing STO game content

YET - one of the MAIN sources of STO content (which does indeed take time) rewards ZERO Dilithium; and that's all the main storyline missions in the game. Further, it seems that with this new reputation system, you're making it even LESS attrictive for players to spend any time doing these story missions; and effectively re-enforcing the fact that you want them to play the Fleet missions and other 'grind' content as Dilithium and Reoytation or Fleet Marks are now the main rewards players will seek out.

Hell, even the Doff system rewards Dilithium for a few minutes of mouse- clicking.

My honest question: Why are you intent on enticing players AWAY from your main STO storyline missions since the F2P conversion?
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=91861979000&dateline=  1340755546
PWE Drone says, "Your STO community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 23
# 583
10-24-2012, 08:45 PM
So one thing which stood out for me in one of many posts by dastahl 'The designers had a desire to see more people playing the Fleet Actions by making Fleet Actions the best source of Dilithium'.

You really have to stop looking at you designers as the customers. If the player base isnt playing the Fleet Actions the answer is not looking for a way to force the customer to do it, the answer is to understand why they dont use the product and then make a change to the product which will entice the customer.

The old addage of 'You can lead a horse to water' it is a failing method to force a customer into a choice they do not like.

I get that the dev went to a lot of effort to designe the Fleet Actions but it should be clear that it isnt popular. So what do you do? You tell your Dev team that they did a great job made an awsome product that just didnt fly. What do we do now? Figure out what will get them lined up to play, not whipping them into line.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,582
# 584
10-24-2012, 08:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dastahl View Post
This is so far from the truth that it actually made me laugh. While any business could always use more profit, it has little to nothing to do with Season 7 STF changes.

The Dilithium exchange counts for such a small part of our business that adding more to this does not have any significant change on our bottom line when compared to other promotions such as the Lifetime sale or 15% Zen Sales.

While I went into an explaination of our view on Dilithium earlier in the thread, the gist of it is that Dilithium is designed to benefit players who have time to play but don't have that much money. The amount of Dilithium needed across the game is determined by the player's desire for rewards and no one ever has to spend any money on Dilithium - period. Everyone can refine Dilithium every day.

By putting in both more ways to earn and more ways to spend Dilithium, it greatly benefits the players who have lots of time to spend in the game by making Dilithium valuable. When Dilithium has value, it allows players who spend the time to play and refine it the ability to sell it to players who would rather not spend the time to do it. Dilithium trade is a convenience transaction between players. One player is giving their Zen to another in exchange for Dilithium. No one ever needs to do this. You can level up the Fleet Holdings and Reputation Systems simply by playing the game and refining your Dilithium.

If you are spending money on Dilithium, it is because it is a convenience for you. You are trading the time you could have spent to earn it for some Zen. Cryptic benefits from this because as a Free to Play game, it allows players who don't have money - our free players - the ability to gain some Zen by trading the time they spent playing to someone who didn't want to take the time.

So all this talk of "increasing profits because we are in trouble" is absolutely not true. Profits are just fine without Dilithium because of Subscribers, Lifetimers, and players who purchase items in the Store.

If you want to see more detailed information on this, I may be giving a talk about how Dilithium helps to fight "pay to win" F2P games at GDC in 2013 by offering players the chance to trade their time to another player in order to get all the goodies in the Store.

And as mentioned above, all of this is the announcement. We still have several weeks on Tribble before this goes live and we are gathering feedback and will adjust as we feel necessary.
I appreciate the communication!

Let me just say, I think dilithium is still the best measure of how much people value time in the game. It's an economic indicator of value.

The happier people are, the lower the rate at which dilithium will turn into ZEN at a high volume of transactions.

If there's only one offer and it's 500 dil per ZEN, it means people do not value time very highly.

If there are 50,000 fast moving exchanges of 25 dil per ZEN at any moment, it means people value time highly.

My concern is that the diagnostic value becomes muddied with too much centrally planned market manipulation, regardless of the size of the market.

It tells you how happy people are and measures economic social surplus. It's a better tool than forums, which will tend to attract complaints, or in-game polls or surveys, which may be ignored or prove costly. The exchange can be the ultimate feedback tool but it needs a steady baseline first.
Ensign
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 8
# 585
10-24-2012, 08:49 PM
This gif sums up the dev's reasoning:

http://i.imgur.com/bscYP.gif

Hurf durf

http://i.imgur.com/MSw0s.gif
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,764
# 586
10-24-2012, 08:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by crypticarmsman View Post
My honest question: Why are you intent on enticing players AWAY from your main STO storyline missions since the F2P conversion?
I second this notion. I think the story missions should at least offer some dil if played on normal, much more on elite. There's already an internal cooldown for replays, so you're not hurting the dil exchange by including them. It would allow new players get the dil they need to start doffing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lt. Comm. Pion
What should I wish upon the endless universe;
To be able to smile and forgive everything;
That's right, if we light up the dream in our hearts without averting our eyes;
We should be able to walk whatever tomorrow comes...

I am V. Adm. Kha Yuung, and I approve of this message.
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 133
# 587 Re: Season 7 Dev Blog #8
10-24-2012, 08:59 PM
I'm responding to http://sto.perfectworld.com/news/?p=726221

Quote:
players have been facing off against the Borg for many months in order to obtain gear such as the Mark XII Very Rare MACO, Omega Force and Honor Guard sets.
It took me about a week of perseverance to get a full set of Mk XII MACO gear for the ground while merely pugging it. At no point did I run the with a team put together specifically to get the loot. Pugs were frustrating, but sufficient. When I actually look at how many times my pugs managed to actually complete the missions... It took 3 successful runs of Infected, 5 successful runs of Khitomer, and 3 successful runs of Cure.

The only thing I find truly frustrating is getting Infected Ground Elite optional. Every time I've been in a group that's managed to do everything right, with nobody crossing the lines, everything going extremely fast, it fails for no freaking reason. The failure occurs despite there being both time on the clock and nobody crossing the lines. I've got the optional for the other two completed already.

That said, I do approve of the new system. It looks like it's a lot more fair and considerably better than the current system.

Last edited by zenzenarimasen; 10-24-2012 at 09:04 PM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 23
# 588
10-24-2012, 08:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stoleviathan99 View Post
I appreciate the communication!

Let me just say, I think dilithium is still the best measure of how much people value time in the game. It's an economic indicator of value.

The happier people are, the lower the rate at which dilithium will turn into ZEN at a high volume of transactions.

If there's only one offer and it's 500 dil per ZEN, it means people do not value time very highly.

If there are 50,000 fast moving exchanges of 25 dil per ZEN at any moment, it means people value time highly.

My concern is that the diagnostic value becomes muddied with too much centrally planned market manipulation, regardless of the size of the market.

It tells you how happy people are and measures economic social surplus. It's a better tool than forums, which will tend to attract complaints, or in-game polls or surveys, which may be ignored or prove costly. The exchange can be the ultimate feedback tool but it needs a steady baseline first.
I think the biggest concern that Cryptic and other groups like this should begin to have is the Secret Service looking into wether at this point they are counterfitting. This sounds very like a real currency developing outside the bounds of US law. "You can now work from home for ZEN" How long before we see external grinders trading ingame for ZEN or in game equivilent transfers?
Lieutenant
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 60
# 589
10-24-2012, 09:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by verlaine11 View Post
Wile E. Coyote had better plans while trying to catch Roadrunner
I got a good laugh out of this.

So far season 7 seems like a total train wreck.

I was really looking forward to the reputation system, but after testing it on tribble and seeing post on this forum. Its pretty much dead on arrival to me. No new gear sets (rehashed crap doesn't count), some new uninteresting borg weapons,so much grinding its borderline unpaid labor. Then you slash STF dil rewards? I understand this system does have its positive side, but its negatives far FAR outweigh any benefit this systems provides.

Season 7 kinda makes me feel sorry for those who payed for a Lifetime sub.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,764
# 590
10-24-2012, 09:07 PM
Some fears are legit, but some are getting out of hand.

I'll worry about counterfeiting the day I can buy RL cup noodles with zen instead of pixels I order out of a replicator.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lt. Comm. Pion
What should I wish upon the endless universe;
To be able to smile and forgive everything;
That's right, if we light up the dream in our hearts without averting our eyes;
We should be able to walk whatever tomorrow comes...

I am V. Adm. Kha Yuung, and I approve of this message.
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