Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
Quote:
Originally Posted by dastahl View Post
Ok, just checked with the designers and here is what they've done for Season 7

- Normal STFs now reward 240 Dilithium + Omega Marks
- Elite STFs now reward 480 Dilithium + Omega Marks + Borg Commodity for MKXII Sets
Ouch.

Why are STFs being so heavily penalized?


We are also losing the EDC, Rare/Proto Salvage, Extra Tech Dilithium turn ins are we not?

It's going to cost approximately 484,000 dilithium to get to T5 rep, buy 8 [Borg] weapons & buy 3 set pieces.

Why de-incentivize the very content that you are adding a dilithium sink to by reducing the dilithium rewards?

For one thing, ground rewards as they stand now are not commensurate with the amount of time investment they require vs. space.

Another is that 480 is really a pittance for an Elite STF.


Here are some solo missions that reward 480:

  • Rescue Deferi Captives (this mission takes under 3 minutes)
  • History 102: Alpha Quadrant Midterm (takes about 30s)
  • Explore Strange New Worlds 1440 (takes about 15 minutes)
  • The above can be combined with Chart the B'tran cluster for a total of 2880 dilithium
  • Traelus System Repair 480 (takes under 5 minutes)
There are at least another 3-4 missions like this.



There is no reason that an Elite STF that requires 5 players to first get together and complete should reward the same or less missions than what's listed above




In fact you can earn 500 dilithium not even being at your PC through the DOFF system or 2K dilithium through the contraband turn in!!




I think the idea was to push more people into the fleet events and alerts, here are my problems with that:

1) Incentive for content A does not need to be mutually exclusive with incentive content B.

2) Players should earn rewards based on the content. I'm glad you're improving fleet action rewards, but why do you feel the need to crush the STF rewards at the same time? Some of these fleet actions are just big, story-less shooting galleries that don't even require the slightest bit of thought.



If you really want to incentivize various existing content you need to build it into the calendar with more bonus days or even bonus per week if a player completes content A, B, C & D in a specific time frame (say, 1 week) then they get a X% bonus dilithium or a better chance at a drop or similar.




While we're on the subject of reward:

Quote:
Originally Posted by dstahl
In addition Fleet Actions will now have better rewards in general
Gold = Purple + 1920 Dilithium
Silver = Purple + 960 Dilithium
Bronze = Blue + 960 Dilithium
All others = Green + 960 Dilithium

I like the idea of player's being rewarded for better performance.

The above is problematic however.


You can clearly see the issue present itself in starbase 24.

You have 5 players, playing completely selfishly. No one is there to help anyone else.

You have 1 player who is the winner, and the only way to win is just raw damage output which basically tells two entire ship classes and two captain types to just stay home if they actually want a reward.


What you should do, for bonus rewards, is something similar to STFs (but are not straight DPS races, which plays into the above as well just a bit less selfishly).

Essentially, there should be a set of performance thresholds and when those are achieved the entire team gets a bonus reward.

This could comeas a set of optionals that must be achieved or if you want to simply sum up the combined DPS/Heals/Debuffs put out by a team vs. time to complete.


Last edited by ussultimatum; 10-24-2012 at 07:39 PM.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 335
# 2
10-24-2012, 07:34 PM
Good god, that's insane.
Former PWE Community Team Lead
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 9,046
# 3
10-24-2012, 07:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by levi3 View Post
Took me like 10 posts in the blog thread but he finally answered the Elephant in the room question for me:


Originally Posted by levi3
Which new STF gives 480 dilth? I am still waiting to hear what they will pay.


DShahl:


Ok, just checked with the designers and here is what they've done for Season 7

- Normal STFs now reward 240 Dilithium + Omega Marks
- Elite STFs now reward 480 Dilithium + Omega Marks + Borg Commodity for MKXII Sets
- Fleet Actions now reward 960 Dilithium (1st place Gold gets 2x this = 1920 Dilithium)

In Season 7, Fleet Actions will now become the best source of Dilithium between the two types of Events.

In addition Fleet Actions will now have better rewards in general
Gold = Purple + 1920 Dilithium
Silver = Purple + 960 Dilithium
Bronze = Blue + 960 Dilithium
All others = Green + 960 Dilithium

In addition, at max level in the Omega Fleet a repetable project unlocks that converts Omega Marks to Dilithium at a rate of 50 marks to 500 dilithium or thereabouts.

The new Red Alert daily in the New Romulus Sector also rewards 480 Dilithium in addition to Rom marks.

All of this could change before Season 7 hits, but that is what the current plan is.
Please don't forget that you're going to be able to use the guaranteed marks to run projects that will turn them into Dilithium:

Quote:
Originally Posted by dastahl View Post
STFs will still reward Dilithium and there will be an Omega Rep project that converts marks into Dilithium, so we're replacing it, not taking it away.

In addition, we're adding Dilithium drops to all Fleet Actions as well as some other new Events.

All of this in Season 7
In the current system, you can do this with your random drops as well, but now your getting guaranteed drops which can be used in the reputation system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dastahl View Post
In addition, at max level in the Omega Fleet a repetable project unlocks that converts Omega Marks to Dilithium at a rate of 50 marks to 500 dilithium or thereabouts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by salamiinferno View Post
I just checked and the elite STF's are currently rewarding 3x less marks than they should.

Infected Space Elite is currently awarding 20 Omega Marks without the bonus, on the next push it will award 60 Omega Marks per run.

It will still give 1 elite mark.
Brandon "BranFlakes" Felczer | Former Community Team Lead for Perfect World Entertainment
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,137
# 4
10-24-2012, 07:42 PM
Pwebranflakes, this turn marks into dilithium via rep system... will it remove a project slot that would otherwise be used to advance our Omega Reputation? How long will it take to get our dilithium via this dilithium project?

Edit: I misread part of the post.

I thought the part about players at max level can run a project in the Omega Fleet to trade marks for Dil actually meant at lvl 50 this is an available project. It appears I would have to be max level in the rep system itself to run this project. I would still like to know how long it would take to convert marks to dil though.
Man is a gaming animal. He must always be trying to get the better in something or other.
Warning, this poster tends to talk nonsensically when caffine levels fall below 80%.

Last edited by defalus; 10-24-2012 at 07:51 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 5
10-24-2012, 07:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pwebranflakes View Post
Please don't forget that you're going to be able to use the guaranteed marks to run projects that will turn them into Dilithium:
Unfortunately this will not address the disparity between completing solo content for solo rewards that from a time & coordination standpoint are significantly less demanding.

On top of this, you have to first shell out 200k dilithium (T5 rep) just to unlock a mission that gives you 500 dilithium.

You would have to run that mission four hundred times just to break even. It would also cost you 20,000 omega marks to do so (@50 marks per assignment).


Coincidentally, earning 60 marks per elite STF would mean that in order to earn the required 20,000 omega marks you would need to run 330+ Elite STFs.

This also doesn't take into consideration the fact that now all of our STF gear will cost dilithium.

An additional 184,000 dilithium to gear a cruiser for space (approximately) in addition to the 200,000 dilithium for T5 rep.





Quote:
Originally Posted by pwebranflakes View Post
In the current system, you can do this with your random drops as well, but now your getting guaranteed drops which can be used in the reputation system.
In the current system we don't have to first pay for, and unlock the rewards behind a wall that absorbs in advance a massive chunk of the "reward".


As I stated above, it will take a very long time to just break even in the new system.


Last edited by ussultimatum; 10-24-2012 at 07:52 PM.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 335
# 6
10-24-2012, 07:57 PM
My suggestion is to also add dilithium to the fleet events that give fleet marks as well, if that wasn't already part of the plan.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,628
# 7
10-24-2012, 07:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pwebranflakes View Post
Please don't forget that you're going to be able to use the guaranteed marks to run projects that will turn them into Dilithium:
By a similar convulsed method that we already use, except we can do it at any time instead of being locked away requiring a down payment.

Quote:
In the current system, you can do this with your random drops as well, but now your getting guaranteed drops which can be used in the reputation system.
Never mind we get 1100 per Elite run now, not 480 ... even in your "guaranteed drops" we still LOSE because what we can do with the current system is convert the extra we gain for Dilithium.

Simply put, its being replaced with a system that offers LESS rewards and no, dont give me that "guaranteed" because I am now guaranteed 1100 Dilithium MINIMUM per Elite run, not accounting conversion of drops that is a extra, the whole "you can finally get a Mk XII set" is not a excuse to cut things across the board and call it a improvement.

Basically you are replacing a empty queue with another, nobody played Fleet Actions and now nobody will play STFs.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 640
# 8
10-24-2012, 09:25 PM
branflakes, I don't envy your job, but we actually play this game and know it's systems and we can tell we're getting a very raw deal. You can polish it all you like, but it's still cow doody. Or maybe Mugatu poo.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 226
# 9
10-24-2012, 09:55 PM
Raw deal indeed.

I am not privvy to all the details but what is posted here is disheartening.

STO seems to be taking steps into areas I will not follow them.


I cant offer much other input thus far until I see more details and experience the system myself but I can say....ouch.
Napoleon's final defeat came at Waterloo. Must've been embarrassing. You're the f'ing emperor. You conquered all of Europe, only to lose in a place with a stupid name like Waterloo. Or Watergate, or Whitewater. Note to politicans: Stay on land.
Ensign
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 24
# 10
10-24-2012, 10:30 PM
I'd be fine with the whole rep costing a ton of dilithium if STFs still rewarded the same amount of dilithium. But with these changes, doing STFs just don't have much calling to me, and I love doing them. This will seriously kill off ground missions and I'm sure space will take a hit. Yes, I know Perfect World wants to make money from us buying Zen, but if everything costs money then the game might as well be subscription based and no microtransactions. I started playing STO because it was free to play, not because I wanted to have to pay to get anything in the game.
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