Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,192
# 41
10-25-2012, 02:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by webdeath View Post
My issue is with getting hit for 5k+ on Crits to my Hull from a Kinetic Transformed DHC/Turret combo repeatedly and being able to do nothing to block it except for Polarized Hull, Hazard emitters, and use Kinetic resist consoles.
Aux to damp, brace for impact :p

Edit: didnt they change aux to damp shared cooldown ? isn't it possible to have 100% uptime now with 2 copies ?

Last edited by dalnar83; 10-25-2012 at 02:13 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 668
# 42
10-25-2012, 02:15 AM
We'll see soph I don't see this as a good thing for cruisers at all though.

Frankly your BO shots in a cruiser... are going to always be pathetic... honestly think of it this way... if you have 2 copies of tac init up you have
4 rolls per min to proc a kinetic hit on one... and it will land for around the same dmg as a dhc crit yes.

The average Escort hits 15% crit chance on there dhc....
Most fire 4 per ROUND.
I will say conservatively a half decent escort will land 15 rounds per min of cannons.

Thats 60 DHC per min... vs FOUR Beam Overload hits.
You can count on 9 of them to be crits based on that math...
Based on ONLY crit DHC strikes its still 20% chance to land one every min vs 9% for the cruiser with BO running.

Not counting crits... the escort has a 78% chance to land at least 1 kinetic hit (I know the cruiser chances of regular beam hits are higher to... its just dmg amount though... often beams don't break 1k for most cruisers)... the chances of multiple hits arn't exactly low either. Having said that I don't know if there is an internal limiter on the amount of prcos that can happen ect.... in anyway the math doesn't point to this being a boon for cruisers I don't think.

Last edited by husanakx; 10-25-2012 at 02:17 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 668
# 43
10-25-2012, 02:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by webdeath View Post
My issue is with getting hit for 5k+ on Crits to my Hull from a Kinetic Transformed DHC/Turret combo repeatedly and being able to do nothing to block it except for Polarized Hull, Hazard emitters, and use Kinetic resist consoles.
See people say I'm crazy for not running RPS and sticking to my aux to damps... ha I'm ahead of the curve.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,213
# 44
10-25-2012, 02:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by husanakx View Post
We'll see soph I don't see this as a good thing for cruisers at all though.

Frankly your BO shots in a cruiser... are going to always be pathetic... honestly think of it this way... if you have 2 copies of tac init up you have
4 rolls per min to proc a kinetic hit on one... and it will land for around the same dmg as a dhc crit yes.

The average Escort hits 15% crit chance on there dhc....
Most fire 4 per ROUND.
You mean second?

Quote:
I will say conservatively a half decent escort will land 15 rounds per min of cannons.

Thats 60 DHC per min... vs FOUR Beam Overload hits.
You can count on 9 of them to be crits based on that math...
Based on ONLY crit DHC strikes its still 20% chance to land one every min vs 9% for the cruiser with BO running.

Not counting crits... the escort has a 78% chance to land at least 1 kinetic hit (I know the cruiser chances of regular beam hits are higher to... its just dmg amount though... often beams don't break 1k for most cruisers)... the chances of multiple hits arn't exactly low either. Having said that I don't know if there is an internal limiter on the amount of prcos that can happen ect.... in anyway the math doesn't point to this being a boon for cruisers I don't think.
To me, this sounds more like you were believing CRF and DHC's in general were too powerful when compared to beams, and that the new procs just make that more visible?
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,395
# 45
10-25-2012, 02:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sophlogimo View Post
Okay, so the tac escort's DHC procs and critically hits with 15k raw damage (how often will this happen, the crit and the proc hitting at the same time? This is not a rhetoric question!). Many people will still use Neutronium, so you should expect a cruiser to soak about 40% of those 15 away with armor, leaving something like 9k of damage coming through. Which is about 20% of the cruiser's hitpoints, usually less.

The cruiser, critting his BO in the same way by adding crit and proc at the same time, will do something like 15k, too, vs an escort that can probably not hope for much more than 30% resistances, leaving something like 10k of damage. That is 30% of the escort's hitpoints, usually less.

Those are very rough numbers, of course, but even in the scenario you describe, where the damage-buffing ability (CRF or BO) plus a crit plus a proc all strike together, I see no one-shot kills being the rule.

However, what is interesting now is: How often will that happen? How much 100% shield bleedthrough kinetic damage can be expected over 1 minute between the two exemplary ships?
Cruisers not built for murder won't crit outside of extremely freak incidents, sometimes just from the (relatively) small crit chance buff you get from APA. If you built a cruiser based on stopping people and loaded with snares you might have something, but otherwise you're blowing out hot air. You won't crit the same way an escort will in a million years.

vids and guides and stuff

[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,527
# 46
10-25-2012, 02:24 AM
Aux to Damp, Forgot. And you can't exactly keep Brace for impact up all the time. I guess it would give another use for the other Brace for Impact doff, the one that Gives you resists to everything when you use Brace for Impact.
You think that your beta test was bad?
Think about this:
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 668
# 47
10-25-2012, 02:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sophlogimo View Post
To me, this sounds more like you were believing CRF and DHC's in general were too powerful when compared to beams, and that the new procs just make that more visible?
DHC are more power full then beams... that is working as intended. Which is why a brain dead proc that simply translates energey dmg into 100% shield pen kinetic favors the highest dmg creating weapons.

DHC have the worst arcs and are restricted to the only DPS class (with a few DPS crossbreeds) in the game... yes they are more powerful by design and get the most bang out of this new proc for sure.

Adding this proc is terrible for balance yes.

Last edited by husanakx; 10-25-2012 at 02:32 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 668
# 48
10-25-2012, 02:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by webdeath View Post
Aux to Damp, Forgot. And you can't exactly keep Brace for impact up all the time. I guess it would give another use for the other Brace for Impact doff, the one that Gives you resists to everything when you use Brace for Impact.
*cough* you mean the hazard doff. I use this one now and then already. lol ya it got a boost sort of I guess.

I have been using the aegis set again cause I love it... but the fact that they change the dmg type when it comes through the shield it makes that bonus uesless...

The dmg should at least remain as the same type of dmg the beam is...

If this proc MUST exist which I hope it doesn't Have to exist... at least don't change the dmg to Kinetic for seemingly no reason at all. Call it a Shield Harmonic proc or something stupid and leave the dmg type alone.

Last edited by husanakx; 10-25-2012 at 02:33 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,395
# 49
10-25-2012, 02:33 AM
The numbers are pretty hilarious when you think about it. Chunking a poor dude through full shields for ~10k+ kinetic that he couldn't possibly have prepared resists for? That's nasty! Dealing ~2.5% true damage (effectively multiplying it by the mind-boggling extra you'd usually lose to energy resists) over the course of a game? That, gentlemen, is nasty. Case closed.

vids and guides and stuff

[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,213
# 50
10-25-2012, 02:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by husanakx View Post
DHC are more power full then beams... that is working as intended. Which is why a brain dead proc that simply translates energey dmg into 100% shield pen kinetic favors the highest dmg creating weapons.
[...]
It also favors the ships that can mount the most armor. The interesting question is not which ship will dish out more such kinetic shield penetration damage, but how the actual damage output/damage intake relation betweeen escorts and cruisers and science ships might change.

Also, shield penetration damage is usually not as valuable as you seem to think, because you can then simultaneously heal shield and hull, negating more of your opponent's damage output in the same time.

You see, there can be arguments made for either side, and with many variables (such as cooldowns) not known yet, we simply cannot conclude anything validly.

Now, I would just say, let us just wait and see, and try it out when possible. Even if that means to wait until it goes live and then some time... we can then still lobby for changes when we actually know what we are talking about.
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