Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 627
# 71
10-26-2012, 11:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rudiefix1 View Post
Bwahahahhhaaahhahaahaa rolflorlforllol


But seriously. Can we get these also in different colors. I like rainbows
perhaps cryptic can program each shot to fire a different color!
my new saying is "cryptic made me do it" in lieu of the the "devil"
Member since January 2010. I AM NOT A PWE FAN!!!!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 230
# 72
10-26-2012, 11:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
The majority of the changes ya'll are talking about are already on Tribble, and I get the feeling that few have actually been run thru the wringer. At least, I'm seeing very little specific feedback on them.
You mean the rep system abilities that cannot be accessed until you implement a shortcut to unlock them?

Are you really surprised that there has been little specific feedback on a topic that nobody can test?

And please tell us what kind of feedback you want, i.e. what kind of changes are possible based on our feedback. I suppose if we end up telling you that it would be best to disable these bonuses in pvp, you wouldn't follow that advice no matter how good it might be for pvp balance. So what exactly is it that can possibly be tweaked?

There have been major pvp-balance affecting bugs in the game for months now and no sign of cryptic fixing them - are you really surprised that we are a bit tired of testing things when we already know that all the important decisions have already been made?
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,764
# 73
10-26-2012, 11:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
The majority of the changes ya'll are talking about are already on Tribble, and I get the feeling that few have actually been run thru the wringer. At least, I'm seeing very little specific feedback on them.

It sounds like the Siphon changes need another tuning pass, but I'd like to hear if anyone has dug deep into the mechanics, or if folks are just going by a gut feeling of It's Not Nerfed Enough.

We have plans to put up Test Items available on Tribble that will grant you all Space or Ground Passive and Active reputation abilities, for the purposes of testing them out. We know that nobody will reach T5 Rep on Tribble, so this is our potential solution. They won't be up this weekend, but we're hoping to get them onto a vendor on DS9 and/or Ganalda by next weekend.

A good sampling of other Reputation- and Embassy-gained items will be on the vendor as well. Again, for hands-on testing and focused feedback.

We're also doing an official Tribble Test Weekend promo soon. Keep your eyes open for the announcement, as I'd love to see a bunch of the PvP community on Tribble that weekend, equipped with the Test items, getting a solid feel for exactly what needs further attention & tuning prior to the launch of Season 7.
how many know pvp'ers got selected to test the vesta? i only saw 2 or 3 of us post in that thread and i don't see any indication that there is a vesta waiting for me if i log in to tribble.


that knetic proc is horrible. i know what its like to receive a big BO crit or big DHC crit, and there being a chance that it could turn into kinetic damage, and do damage directly to hull is insane. its not easy keeping an 'impenetrable' defense intact for more then a minute or so, that kinetic proc is going to make any defensive effort invalid. if there is focus fire, and you and others are trying to keep you healthy, this simply bypasses that effort by several people banging their head on the space bar. luck based i win buttons like these are BAD, stop introducing them!glider that is at least every shot is a consistent effect, you know what your going to get. its not a random thing. that is a better design.

you have got to kill this plasma proc for all too. it would be absurd that everyone firing any energy weapon could cause this. every single player on the screen would have the plasma proc on them at all times. not even for balance and gameplay reasons, just for reasons that it would be absurd should this item NOT exist. this is also another kick in the teeth to standard plasma weapons. this does the opposite of make up for the stf shields making them a non choice.

the healing chance every time there is a critical hit? when i use my high crit chance weapons and bury some one in EWP, am i going to be issuing them more heals then damage? please tell me there is at least a 1 minute cooldown between chances that can proc, preferably more.


i hope i get the chance to pvp on tribble with some of this stuff. i highly doubt it will change my opinion on these things, ive done more then enough pvp to know what aditions like this would bring when they are at their worst.
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 225
# 74
10-26-2012, 11:56 AM
jam should never have had a placate anyway. it didnt always
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,786
# 75
10-26-2012, 12:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
The majority of the changes ya'll are talking about are already on Tribble, and I get the feeling that few have actually been run thru the wringer. At least, I'm seeing very little specific feedback on them.

It sounds like the Siphon changes need another tuning pass, but I'd like to hear if anyone has dug deep into the mechanics, or if folks are just going by a gut feeling of It's Not Nerfed Enough.

We have plans to put up Test Items available on Tribble that will grant you all Space or Ground Passive and Active reputation abilities, for the purposes of testing them out. We know that nobody will reach T5 Rep on Tribble, so this is our potential solution. They won't be up this weekend, but we're hoping to get them onto a vendor on DS9 and/or Ganalda by next weekend.

A good sampling of other Reputation- and Embassy-gained items will be on the vendor as well. Again, for hands-on testing and focused feedback.

We're also doing an official Tribble Test Weekend promo soon. Keep your eyes open for the announcement, as I'd love to see a bunch of the PvP community on Tribble that weekend, equipped with the Test items, getting a solid feel for exactly what needs further attention & tuning prior to the launch of Season 7.
Okay so this means we can test out the new omega set with the borg console/kinetic cutter/omega torpedo launcher etc..

I haven't got around to copying my main siphon pod guy over yet but i'll probally do that tonight to see how it works out.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 461
# 76
10-26-2012, 12:58 PM
Borticus,

Why should we bother testing? We test and we report, and nothing gets done. I'm not blaming you; you're just one person, and what I've seen from you on this forum tells me you're the right kind of person. You're trying, and we appreciate it, really, we do. But it's not enough.

The problem goes way deeper than one person can fix. It's a company that doesn't seem to care about quality assurance except when it immediately and directly affects the bottom line; a company that doesn't seem to care about PvP; a company that is forever telling us we will have improvements "soon," but "soon" never comes.

And it's a game built on a mountain of legacy code so high that every fix seems to create new bugs. I don't even blame you guys anymore for not aggressively pursuing bugs that don't affect the experience of the casual majority. When even small fixes can break vital components to the game, I can understand a desire to just leave things as they are.

We test things for our own benefit now, to satisfy our curiosity and improve our competitive edge. On occasion, we notify you on occasion of what we find, even though we don't expect anything to change. Many of us have already given up: why spend the time to write a detailed bug report or careful analysis of balance problems, when nothing will be changed? Even so, I think we still do a better job finding bugs and balance mistakes than the entire rest of the game's players combined.

So, answer me this. Why should we search for new bugs when bugs that we identified in Season 5 and 6 are still unacknowledged and unsolved? Why should we make balance suggestions, when balance suggestions backed by the entire PvP community seem to be ignored? What line of logic can you guide us through to make us think that any testing, except that which we do to develop our own competitive edge, would be worth our while?
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,764
# 77
10-26-2012, 01:07 PM
i have yet to see feedback change the values on anything newly released, only when something effects pve in an unintended way is something adjusted before release. bugs do not count, we are talking about ability magnitude here. i will be presently surprised if anything changes, but at this point the pve kiddies know full well about these new passives and items, they will scream bloody murder if their new toys get toned down. and they will hate on us more, because its our fault. but they are playing a game clearly build around player ships fighting player ships, otherwise there would not be sci captains and sci ships.
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,105
# 78
10-26-2012, 01:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
The majority of the changes ya'll are talking about are already on Tribble, and I get the feeling that few have actually been run thru the wringer. At least, I'm seeing very little specific feedback on them.

It sounds like the Siphon changes need another tuning pass, but I'd like to hear if anyone has dug deep into the mechanics, or if folks are just going by a gut feeling of It's Not Nerfed Enough.

We have plans to put up Test Items available on Tribble that will grant you all Space or Ground Passive and Active reputation abilities, for the purposes of testing them out. We know that nobody will reach T5 Rep on Tribble, so this is our potential solution. They won't be up this weekend, but we're hoping to get them onto a vendor on DS9 and/or Ganalda by next weekend.

A good sampling of other Reputation- and Embassy-gained items will be on the vendor as well. Again, for hands-on testing and focused feedback.

We're also doing an official Tribble Test Weekend promo soon. Keep your eyes open for the announcement, as I'd love to see a bunch of the PvP community on Tribble that weekend, equipped with the Test items, getting a solid feel for exactly what needs further attention & tuning prior to the launch of Season 7.
i'm fine with the testing and all (not with the new probable dil-sink, but that's on another sheet).
also i'm fine with revamps and new content, except it leaves out parts of the game (just like with the fleet marks, which are still not rewarded for pvp c&h maps?! that's a sad lol ...).

but in whole, there's one thing i just don't get:
the answer to the question, why most persons i know who play online-games, are playing online-games, is: the challenge of playing with players against other players.
why? because it's boring to always trick the ai on the same missions on and on and on...
winning is about losing, so what is more satisfying in a computer game than dealing with other players (who are mostly more challenging than the ai, in most of the games i know. and if not: i win )?

so... stated there is nothing more challenging (and probably attracting) in an onlinegame than pvp, why it should be different in sto?
easy math: cause it's broken. so, cause it's broken/not an essential part of the game there're only around 10% pvp'ers (guess i read this in a dev's statement).

now the point i don't get is folowing:
companies math now seems to be: only 10% pvp'ers? not worth fixing anything.
may better math is: fix pvp and, if not making hc pve'ers pvping you probably will draw interest from people who hesitate to play the game/stopped playing it, cause pvp is broken ^^...
also this would increase pvp abilities in whole, which could lead to more tricky pve content (which then may would be new fun to play).

just make it a essential part of the game, as it should always be in an online-game. you already made the story-backround with the fed-klink war, but there seems to be no conclusion (which pvp would just be perfect for... even more now we got the fleet-system!)^^...

but i'm rarely dealing with maths anyway, and that's all just a guess (one which was taken and stated several times before, as i know) ...

Klink: House of Beautiful - J'Luc / Rommie: Lag Industries - D'Waste
Join Date Hoster: Dec 2011 - Join Date Symbiont: 1403 A.D. and not a dull moment
PLZ ADD MARKS-TO-CHOOSE PACKS AND AFK/LEAVER PENALTY TO PVP PUBLIC QUES (not privates!)
AND DON'T TOUCH OUR DIL!!!
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 152
# 79
10-26-2012, 01:54 PM
My biggest pvp-related concerns so far:

1. The fundamental problem with siphon drones is as Mai Kai said, that their drain is unlimited and with doffs, the siphons can be launched faster than most practical levels of AoE can clear them. The target is eventually drained to minimal power levels no matter what.

2. Considering the critical hit rate my escort can put out with Alpha up (helped by the new Tachyokinetic converter btw, that console could use balance tweaking) and the severity of those criticals, I can see a good attack run from two escorts killing a cruiser with it's shields still up, simply from procs. Obviously I haven't been able to test this, but it is concerning. When you do the math however, we wind up with a .963% chance of at least one DHC critcal penetrating your shields every firing cycle assuming a conservative 10% critical chance.

3. Proc flooding. Weapon procs are intended to be both rare events, and powerful. That is absolutely fine from a game design standpoint. What gets worrying is when you have a weapon that has the following: 2.5% chance shield drain, 2.5% phaser proc, 2.5% plasma proc, 2.5% ignore shields, 1% Strip 3 buffs. That's a 10% chance per weapon, per firing cycle of achieving some sort of proc. When you multiply that by seven weapons on an escort that is a whopping 54.2% chance of some kind of proc every firing cycle. Please sit down and do some basic probability analysis of what will happen when you put all these small chances together; individually none of these procs is broken or overly powerful, but you can't look at these things in a vacuum, and it's the sum total when you put everything together that worries me. For comparison, if you have seven weapons with only a single 2.5% proc, your proc rate per firing cycle is only 16%. Not all procs are equal of course, but if we assume that all procs have a significant effect, you've tripled the frequency of procs in general with all these changes. I consider this extremely dangerous.

3. Still no good solution for chained tractor beams from the Danube Runabouts. There's a guy in one of my fleets that I frequently duel; when he equips Danubes, it takes about five times as long to kill him because of the chained tractor beams, and you very definitely notice them when a pair of carriers are using them. The runabouts are tough enough to not die quickly against AoE crowd control, and I think that limiting the tractor to one per squad would be a good solution.

Positive Change: breaking up the Borg set will result in fewer free shield heals. I'll attach the caveat though, that based on combat log analysis, the shield heal is miniscule in magnitude compared to the hull regeneration, and you can still get the two-piece bonus from the deflector & engine, combined with the trusty maco shield. People's shields get a tiny bit weaker, but hull regen stays about the same; the proposed changes aren't enough to make me even contemplate using the new stf pieces for the engine / deflector slot on most ships.
12th Fleet | Sad Pandas | Starfleet M.A.C.O.

Last edited by naldoran; 10-26-2012 at 01:59 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,395
# 80
10-26-2012, 01:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by naldoran View Post
2. Considering the critical hit rate my escort can put out with Alpha up (helped by the new Tachyokinetic converter btw, that console could use balance tweaking)
NooOoOO shhhHhh

vids and guides and stuff

[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:10 AM.