Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 34
# 111
12-14-2012, 01:08 AM
klingons have sci ships as feds have carriers we both pay zen for them. As for Fed cannon of carriers. Just because they dont name them carriers doesnt mean the ships where not modified to use as a carrier.

example 1 voyager carrier nelix's frigate/trader vessal and launched it. The Delta Flyer and modified shuttle craft which were used a few times in battle along with the main ship. Also Voyager has a small ship attached under the saucer which was never used so in essense thats 2 frigate size ships and the delta flyer and what 20 shuttle craft of differing types they used to fight along side the ship.

example 2 was in ds9 where they used fighters as part of galaxy wings.

example 3 was in tng when shuttle craft actually got into fights when not at the main ship. Granted not a true carrier but that proves that shuttles are able to fight.


On the topic of comparing ship to ship.
Voq'uv - atrox
FDC(klingon)-vesta
Kar'fi-armitage

personally i prefer the voq'uv since it has almost same survival but way better dps ability. plus it has Frigates over the atrox.

Vesta is a science version of the flight deck cruisers. personally i figure they are similar to each other.

Kar'fi is a full carrier but i feel its more the Heavy escort carrier that gives up turn rate to gain a extra hanger and gives up target subsystems for 7 weapons instead of 6. To me the kar'fi far out performs the armitage. Now klingons need the fleet version and im set.

As for adding a cruiser version of the carrier(eng) for fed then they would need to add a raptor carrier just tit for tat. I personally could care less for the uniqueness arguement just merge the fed and klingons already via a story line already. I play my klingons more than my feds due to enjoying my kar'fi and voq'uv more. I dont own the vesta or the armitage mainly due to lack of funds and interest. I am still trying to find another ship klingon side to buy but so far i cant bring myself to buy a BoP. I like my carriers if they added the kar'fi as fleet ship all 3 of my captians would own in as soon as my fleet could get it. IMHO

Sirenbane@dlmystic Founder of Dominion-x
Sirensong@dlmystic LG of Guardians of stovokor
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 245
# 112
12-14-2012, 01:19 AM
Quote:
example 1 voyager carrier nelix's frigate/trader vessal and launched it. The Delta Flyer and modified shuttle craft which were used a few times in battle along with the main ship. Also Voyager has a small ship attached under the saucer which was never used so in essense thats 2 frigate size ships and the delta flyer and what 20 shuttle craft of differing types they used to fight along side the ship.
That doesn't make Voyager a carrier, that makes it a ship with embarking craft. Does the ability for a US Navy destroyer to carry a helicopter make it an aircraft carrier?

And the whole Delta Flyer thing's a joke. It's too big to even fit in Voyager's shuttle bay. Just one of many of that series' screwups.

And calling Voyager's aeroshuttle a "frigate" is a bit of a stretch, considering it's only about 30 meters long..Barely larger then a Danube. Plus there's no evidence that it's even armed..

Nova-class ships have their waverider shuttle, does that make them Frigate-carriers too? C'mon...

20 shuttles? An Intrepid could carry 4 shuttles in it's shuttlebay, along with 2 in it's maintenance bay.

So 6 warp-capable shuttles, a cargo shuttle, and 2 Bees. Hardly "20" combat-capable embarking craft on an Intrepid...

Quote:
example 3 was in tng when shuttle craft actually got into fights when not at the main ship. Granted not a true carrier but that proves that shuttles are able to fight.
Shuttles have basic weapons, but that doesn't mean they're built for combat. We know that phasers are often used for utility as often as they are as weapons. A shuttle's weapons are for little more then self-defense. They are not offensive platforms by any means.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 34
# 113
12-14-2012, 01:40 AM
deference between can land on and carrier, can you carrier more than 4 air craft. when carriers were originally setup they had a few that used slingshot inclined launch systems that they planes would have to land in the water beside the ship. They called those carriers. As for only having 4 shuttle craft in 7 years 17 shuttles were destroyed. /shrug
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 245
# 114
12-14-2012, 01:57 AM
4 craft is a number you pulled out of your butt.

A modern day destroyer can carry, maintain and store 2 helicopters.

An Intrepid-class ship is no more an "aircraft carrier" then an Arleigh Burke-class destroyer. And nowhere is it stated that 4+ embarking craft makes you a carrier..

An aircraft carrier is a unit who's primary purpose in a task force is the launch and retrieval of aircraft.

The Federation has no dedicated carriers in the canon. Do they have ships capable of performing the role in limited means? Yes. Akira, for example--which, get this..is a carrier in the game..

Intrepid is not a carrier. No Federation ship in the canon is a dedicated carrier. Having a shuttlebay does not make you a carrier.

Quote:
As for only having 4 shuttle craft in 7 years 17 shuttles were destroyed
Because they can replicate new ones? The only parts of a shuttle that cannot be replicated are the anti-matter, and the dilithium and the flight crew. Anything else can be replicated to replace losses.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 34
# 115
12-14-2012, 02:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wunjee View Post
4 craft is a number you pulled out of your butt.
First you sir are not me. I tend to love military history and naval vessals are one of the most interesting. World war 1 was when first aircraft carriers came out. They in fact could old 4-5 craft each. I used to spend my free time watching history on these ships.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Engadine_(1911) 4 seaplanes i described to you.

As for voyager replicating parts they had trouble with food replication why would they waste resources with parts. and also the torpedos couldnt be replicated either. Salvage and reuse i could see but she carried more than just 6 shuttle craft. I never said she was ment to do the job of a carrier, i implied she was modified as need to do so. Just as the first ships were modified to be air craft carriers in world war 1 out of need. /shrug know your past to plan your future.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,618
# 116
12-14-2012, 02:21 AM
Zombie thread is back fromthe dead.

The Galaxy Class starship's main shuttle bay was supposed to be large enough to accomodate large scale evacuation operations. Since a flight deck cruiser isn't supposed to be a true carrier I see no logical reason for such a ship to not have to ability to launch and recover a small compliment of fighters.

For example If you modified where the entry/exit ports on a galaxy class's main shuttle bay are located you could easily convert it into a through deck carrier like the akira. But with the main enterence as large as it is I also see no reason you could not support concurent landing\takeoff operations.

As far as balance is concerned I can already equip fighters on any ship I please through use of the device slots, the only thing adding a hangar slot would get me is cheeper fighters that, if I choose, will be slightly stronger and with more variety. True I can launch them faster but I can still only have 2 wing out at a time and since there is no frigate pet available to the federation then there can't be a significant boost in overall effectiveness.

IS it necessary for each side to have a version of somthing the other side has? No. Is it somthing everyone is going to ask for anyway? Probably. Will if make any real difference to 90% of the game? Nope. Will PVP be serioulsy affected? Only FvK matches and even then probably not much. Out of the entirety of available means of game play how much would such a thing actualy change anything? 1-2% maybe.

Maybe even make the galaxy class a more used option if it could launch fighters.
Actualy reading things pefore posting will make you look smarter than yelling loudly. Reading comprehension is aparently a lost art.

Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abriham Lincoln
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 245
# 117
12-14-2012, 02:24 AM
Quote:
HMS Engadine
Was not an aircraft carrier. Engadine was a seaplane tender. It says that in the first sentence of the first paragraph of your own link.

Seaplane tender =/= aircraft carrier. Seaplane tenders lack a flight deck...

"There was no flight deck, the aircraft being lowered onto the sea for takeoff and recovered again from the sea after landing."

Again, from your own link..

Engadine was no more an aircraft carrier then a Burke-class destroyer is an aircraft carrier. She was a seaplane tender.. Similar to the Japanese Oyodo-class, which were a class of light cruisers converted to handle seaplanes. This made them seaplane tenders, not aircraft carriers...

Bismarck could carry, store, maintain, launch and recover 4 Arado 196 seaplanes. Did that make Bismarck an aircraft carrier?

Hell, Yamato could carry, store maintain, launch and recover 7 seaplanes..Was Yamato an aircraft carrier?

Just to put this into perspective..

The first true aircraft carrier was HMS Argus. Argus could carry, store, maintain, launch and recover 15-18 aircraft from a flight deck, and carrying, storing, maintaining, launching and recovering those 15-18 aircraft were her only purpose in life..

Quote:
As for voyager replicating parts they had trouble with food replication why would they waste resources with parts.
Because they weren't always low on supplies? There were times that they were, but there were also times when supplies didn't seem like a real concern. Having embarking craft on your 380-meter long ship is a pretty decent priority in itself...

Quote:
and also the torpedos couldnt be replicated either.
Every part of a torpedo can be replicated except the anti-matter in it's warhead. That's why Voyager, a ship who's magazine could only carry 32 torpedoes, fired several hundred of them during the course of the show...

Also, most shuttles don't have torpedoes. Voyager's primary embarking craft were Type-9 shuttles, and they don't have integrated torpedo launchers of any type.

Last edited by wunjee; 12-14-2012 at 02:46 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,553
# 118
12-14-2012, 02:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by disposeableh3r0 View Post
Zombie thread is back fromthe dead.
Not quite, was at about 20 days, not the requisite 30. But this thread really needs to go in some hole and die. It's a silly idea, and not ever going to happen.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Tired of Wasting EC and Time trying to get Superior Romulan Operative BOffs? Here's a cheap and easy way to get them, with an almost 100% chance of success.
Why the Devs can't make PvE content harder.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,618
# 119
12-14-2012, 03:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hereticknight085 View Post
Not quite, was at about 20 days, not the requisite 30. But this thread really needs to go in some hole and die. It's a silly idea, and not ever going to happen.
yeah. It would me neat but then again so would an equipable lance weapon.
Actualy reading things pefore posting will make you look smarter than yelling loudly. Reading comprehension is aparently a lost art.

Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abriham Lincoln
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 51
# 120
12-14-2012, 07:13 PM
KDF:
Vu'Qov carrier
Kar'Fi carrier
tier 3 flight deck cruiser
tier 4 flight deck cruiser
tier 5 flight deck cruiser

FED:
atrox carrier
armitage flight deck escort
vesta flight deck science ship
aventine flight deck science ship
rademaker flight deck science ship

both have 5 unique ship classes; all 5 of the FEDs are tier 5, where as only 3 of the KDFs are tier 5

and you want MORE end game ships for FEDs?
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